Questions & Answers

I don’t know that there is any specific statement of William Miller on the chart. Of course we know that the 2300 year prophecy is the foundation of Adventism that was discovered by Miller. What most of us don’t understand is that the first time prophecy that Miller discovered was the 2520 of Leviticus 26. Miller does state that the first time prophecy he discovered was the 2520 and that this prophecy led him to the 2300 year prophecy. If you look at the chart in the upper right hand corner, you’ll see the 2520 up there right next to the 2300 year prophecy. The Lord led Miller to the 2520; it would be very difficult for Miller to have come across the 2300 year prophecy without the 2520. In the center of the chart there is the cross and right underneath it, two numbers underneath it, you see the year 508 marking the time when paganism was taken away. Miller identified the daily in the book of Daniel as paganism. He is the first person in history that came to understand it that way that we know it today. Down at the bottom of the chart, you see the time prophecies, the 1290 and the 1335. These prophecies are based on the year 508 and Miller’s understanding of the daily and that 508 was the time when paganism was subdued. If you take the daily, the 2520 and the 2300 years off this chart, which are Miller’s work, it’s a pretty empty chart.

In an article in the Present Truth of November 1850 EGW stated, “The Lord showed me that the 1843 chart was directed by His hand, and that no part of it should be altered, that the figures were as He wanted them.” The kingdoms that destroyed Rome were uprooted by the Papacy, thus leaving seven. So, why does the feet of the metal and mud man of Daniel two have ten toes? Ten toes must represent Revelation 17:12–14, 16,17, not the seven remaining kingdoms of Europe. The chart shows the ankle of the Daniel 2 image as being 1798 (USA comes upon the scene). And, the Spirit of Prophecy says:

“We have come to a time when God’s sacred work is represented by the feet of the image in which the iron was mixed with the miry clay.” The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, volume 4, 1168.

“The mingling of church craft and state craft is represented by the iron and the clay.” Manuscript Releases, volume 1, 51.

As for the iron and the clay, Project Restore comments this way;

“Our position in the image of Nebuchadnezzar is represented by the toes, in a divided state among the nations of the earth, and of a crumbling material, that will not hold together.

“Besides referring to the divided state of the nations, in another sense, the mingling of church teaching and state power is represented by the iron and clay. This union of church and state whereby the teachings of the church are enforced by the power of the state is weakening the moral authority of the churches. Investing churches with the power of the state brings evil results.

“Now we come to the time when God’s sacred work is represented by the feet of the image in which the iron was mixed with miry clay. God has a people, a chosen people, whose discernment must be clear. If the governments of the world would honor God, they would stand in the strength of God. But vote-hungry statesmen will mingle their religious faith with the power of the state. In addition to representing the union of the nations of the earth, the mingling of churchcraft and statecraft is also represented by the iron and clay. This union is weakening all the power of the churches. Investing the church with the power of the state will bring evil results. Men have almost passed the point of God’s forbearance. They have invested their strength in politics. However, the time will come when God will punish them and their evil work will recoil upon themselves.”

Do we need a revised Chart for the generally accepted image of Daniel 2? I would greatly appreciate your inputs.

Response

I think we should use charts to present prophecy. We should develop new charts incorporating any and all available new light.

A friend forwarded me an email question and his answer to the question from another friend. His answer included an answer from Pastor R. I then answered. The following is the initial question:

Hi D,

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I was just reading the latest Future News [January 2013] in the first few pages if I understood correctly Jeff was saying that not everything was correct on the 1843 chart such as the date 158 BC as the league with the Jews and the Romans. Is this true? I thought that there was an explanation for that date. I thought I had heard you comment on it before so I am asking you. Can you explain? I didn’t think that there were any mistakes on that chart (except the ending year of 1843, instead of 1844 which really isn’t a mistake either).Thank you, C.

Brother D then answered Sister C with the following email:

Hi C,

Hope this finds you well. I think this answer was formulated from Pastor R…. “To answer your question about the league between the Jews and Romans, according to the 1843 prophecy chart, 1 Maccabees 9:70, 71 is quoted to show 158 BC as the date of the league. However, there were two different ‘leagues’ or peace treaties made with the Romans.

“According to Uriah Smith and also 1 Maccabees chapter 7:1 and chapter 8, the date of the first league was in 161 BC when the Romans and Jews made a peace agreement. This first peace treaty did not last however, because in that same year Bacchides, a loyal Roman ruler, made war against the Jews. In this war Judas Maccabeus was killed. Later his brother Jonathon took over leadership of the Jews. In the beginning of 159 BC Alcimus, the false high priest, died after attempting to tear down the walls of the temple and Bacchides left the Jews alone for 2 years (see 1 Macabees 9:54–57). The Jewish reckoning of time included the full year; therefore, the 2 years would include 159 and 158 BC. Bacchides came back again to battle sometime in 158 BC and lost to the Jews. When he returned to his own land the Jews once again asked for peace and it was granted. This was the second ‘league’ made between the Jews and Romans and this time it lasted longer. This league is found in 1 Maccabees 9:70, 71, and is quoted on the center column of the 1843 chart next to the year of 158 BC. The 1843 chart is therefore accurate about this date.

Brother D,

In response to this email dialogue being sent to me I answered it and mailed it to Brother D, Sister C, and Pastor R, for Pastor R had been referred to in the dialogue.

The following is my response:

Brothers D and Pastor R and Sister C,

I probably said that everything on the chart is not accurate, for I was settling into an understanding which is now more crystallized. My point is as follows:

Sister White’s statement about the Lord holding His hand over a mistake in the some of the figures is explained on pages 235 through 237 of Early Writings. The mistake is the “fullness of the year mistake” which caused the first disappointment on March 22, 1844. It is out of context to suggest that her statements means there are no other inaccuracies (mistakes) on the chart. Maybe there is maybe there is not, but my point is that her reference is referring to the mistake in some of the figures which the Lord held His hand over.

She also says the chart “should not be altered,” but in Spalding and Magan she says “it should not be altered, except by inspiration.” The altering of the chart by inspiration was accomplished with the production of the 1850 chart. The statement concerning the chart not being altered does not mean that the 1843 chart was perfect in every respect, other than the mistake of 1843 which He held His hand over. It means that the Lord would produce the second of Habakkuk’s two tables, and that when He did so it would be altered under His guidance and direction, and not by men. Both tables needed to be produced to fulfill Habakkuk two, and in the first table the Lord allowed a specific mistake that would be used to test the Millerites. His expression that the chart should not be altered can be understood as His Providential guidance, and once again does not have to be understood that it should not be altered because everything on the 1843 chart (other than the fullness of the year mistake) was perfect.

Moses’ two tables of the Ten Commandments were written by the finger of God, and were perfect and prefigured Habakkuk’s two tables. But Habakkuk’s two tables were “directed by the Lord,” not written by the His own finger. The Ten Commandments were perfect, but the 1843 and 1850 charts had human participation, and were subject to human imperfection and limitations, and the particular human limitations which the charts were both subject to was the history in which the Millerites lived.

My point for suggesting these things is as follows. The last deception of Satan is to make of none effect the Spirit of Prophecy. When the testing process began in Adventism on 9/11, the first of three tests is the old paths (as represented upon the 1843 and 1850 charts) and the Spirit of Prophecy.

I have no problem understanding all the figures on the chart as correct applications by the Millerites, but do not insist that the dates they placed on the charts as necessarily the best historical dates, except when they refer to time prophecies. If they had a date that was marked as the fulfillment of a time prophecy, then that date needed to be accurate, but when they employed dates to represent prophecies that had no element of time associated with them, then I see no need to argue that if a better date was found at a later time, that this would invalidate their application of the prophecy.

The ‘43 chart uses the year 490 to represent the time when the Roman Empire was divided into ten kingdoms, whereas Uriah Smith marks that history in 476. I do not believe that Sister White’s statement about the Lord holding “His hand over a mistake in some of the figures” should be defined as proving that 490 was the year when the Roman Empire became ten kingdoms. It is applying her statement differently than she defines it. She clearly identifies that the mistake was in regard to the 2520 and 2300 which they first believed would end in 1843 and thereafter in 1844.

I DO NOT think that 490 is a mistake on the chart in terms of the Millerites correctly applying that the division of the fourth kingdom in Daniel seven into ten kingdoms was incorrect. They were correct in applying the fourth kingdom as pagan Rome, and they were correct in identifying that pagan Rome disintegrated into ten kingdoms. The fact that the best historical information they had marked the conclusion of that history as the year 490 does not make their prophetic application wrong, even if thereafter there was recognized better historical arguments to assign the date as 476.

If they would have taught on the chart that the fourth kingdom of Daniel seven was China, and that at some point China would disintegrate into ten nations, they would have been wrong. But they did not do this. Their application was correct, and their choice of 490 as the year which marked the conclusion of this process is not a subject of any time prophecy, so it was acceptable for them to employ the best historical evidence which they then had. I am not even here arguing against the idea that maybe their choice of 490 is correct and Uriah Smith’s choice of 476 is wrong. I am arguing that the inspired commentary about the mistake on the chart which the Lord held His hand over, and the command not to alter the chart is not evidence that the chart was totally free from human imperfection.

My point is that the “mistake” that is being addressed is the fullness of the year mistake, and that as she explains this mistake on pages 235 through 237 of Early Writings she provides an absolute direct endorsement for the 2520. To argue that everything on the chart is perfect, based on her presentation of what the mistake was is to take her words further than she intended and also opens up an argument (stumbling block) concerning the perfection of the charts that is not necessary, and which provides those who wish to reject this subject with a criticism that is not demanded by her explanation of what the mistake was.

I have no problem defending every application of prophecy on either chart, but do not think that her reference to the mistake proves historically or grammatically that she was saying there were no other human imperfections on either chart. As an example, the charts identify that the ten toes were the divided Roman Empire, but prophecy teaches that the ten toes represent the United Nations at the end of the world. Ellen White plainly says:

“We have come to a time when God’s sacred work is represented by the feet of the image in which the iron was mixed with the miry clay. God has a people, a chosen people, whose discernment must be sanctified, who must not become unholy by laying upon the foundation wood, hay, and stubble. Every soul who is loyal to the commandments of God will see that the distinguishing feature of our faith is the seventhday Sabbath. If the government would honor the Sabbath as God has commanded, it would stand in the strength of God and in defense of the faith once delivered to the saints. But statesmen will uphold the spurious sabbath, and will mingle their religious faith with the observance of this child of the papacy, placing it above the Sabbath which the Lord has sanctified and blessed, setting it apart for man to keep holy, as a sign between Him and His people to a thousand generations. The mingling of churchcraft and statecraft is represented by the iron and the clay. This union is weakening all the power of the churches. This investing the church with the power of the state will bring evil results. Men have almost passed the point of God’s forbearance. They have invested their strength in politics, and have united with the papacy. But the time will come when God will punish those who have made void His law, and their evil work will recoil upon themselves.” The Seventh-day Adventists Bible Commentary, volume 4, 1168.

Sister White penned this in 1899. So in 1899 we reached the time of the iron and clay, but both charts say this was 490 according to the Millerites and 476 according to Uriah Smith. Yet we now know that Sister White was correct and that the ten toes of iron and clay take place at the end of the world, not sixteen hundred years ago. For me, I have no problem upholding the Millerite application based upon typology. The ten toes illustrate the United Nations at the end of the world, but there are several illustrations of the ten kings at the end of the world in God’s word. Each of the places where the United Nations is typified in the Scriptures is a type of the antitypical fulfillment of the United Nations at the end of the world, including the division of the Roman Empire in Daniel seven. Therefore the Millerites were making the correct application by identifying the ten toes as the dragon power, but they could not yet see the end of the world, so were incapable of applying those toes to the United Nations.

Their application was absolutely right in terms of Daniel seven and the division being the dragon power, but at another level it is not as accurate as it could have been if they had lived in 2013. There was no mistake in their prophetic application, but there is clearer light on the subject now, and Sister White’s commentary on the mistake the Lord held His hand over should not be used to teach that every representation on the chart is perfect, for if we do, that claim will be used by Satan to place stumbling blocks before men in order to prevent them from recognizing that her explanation of the mistake is also her direct endorsement of the 2520.

The 2520 being a symbol of the testing of the “old paths,” is directly connected to the testing on the issue of the Spirit of Prophecy with her direct endorsement of the 2520 in Early Writings, 235–237. Because this is such an important test for Seventh-day Adventists it demands that those being used to present the test to Adventism do not place a definition upon her identifying the “mistake” as something that goes beyond her actual definition.

I am familiar with Emiliano’s explanation of 158 BC and AD161, and have no problem with it, but personally would not make a great emphasis of it. The reason is as follows: The fact that Millerites correctly applied Daniel 11:23 as the league between the Romans and the Jews, shows that they were correctly applying God’s prophetic word. Their prophetic application was correct. But to explain 158 BC in terms of the perfection of the charts opens the door for the secondary, if not primary reason Miller chose 158 BC.

Miller applied this history as he did because he believed the first beast of Revelation 13 was pagan Rome, and therefore sought to apply Revelation 13:18 to pagan Rome. Miller applied 666 to pagan Rome and applied the 666 years from 158 BC through AD 508 as one the characteristics of pagan Rome. Thus, according to Miller the “wisdom,” or wise understanding of Revelation 13:18, is that 666 is a time prophecy connected with pagan Rome and that this is one of the prophetic characteristics of pagan Rome. Miller correctly understood and applied that the powers in Bible prophecy are introduced when they come into contact with God’s people. Thus pagan Rome came into contact with the Jews in fulfillment of Daniel 11:23 in 158 BC, and therefore 666 years afterward in AD 508, paganism gave way to papalism. 158 BC was more important to Miller than simply the league, for it identified 666 as one of the prophetic characteristics of the first beast of Revelation 13, which for the Millerites was pagan Rome. Miller understood 666 to represent the time which pagan Rome would prophetically rule, and that time was from 158 BC with the league of the Jews until AD 508 when the “daily” was taken away.

We no longer believe the first beast of Revelation 13 was pagan Rome. We know it was papal Rome. There is more than one problem with this application of Miller’s. If we incorporate the fact that the Millerites did not recognize the fullness of the year principle before 1844, then if we begin a time prophecy at the league of the Jews in 158 BC and extend it into history for 666 years, it would end in 509 not 508, unless of course the league Miller pointed out was accomplished on January 1,158 BC.

I see no need of fighting this battle with those who are struggling with or fighting against the truths of the old paths. The Millerites were correct in their application of Daniel 11:23 being a prophecy that demonstrated that a league between the Jews and the Romans would take place. There is no time prophecy connected with Daniel 11:23, so either 158 BC or AD 161 is sufficient to represent the history when it took place without demanding that every date or representation on the charts are perfect.

Let me repeat what I have already noted. I have no problem defending all the prophetic applications represented on both charts, for all the applications are correct. I simply no longer accept the premise that what has been stated about the charts on page 74 of Early Writings is correctly understood to mean the charts were perfect and free from human limitations.

The fundamental error which Desmond Ford erects his false “sin until Jesus returns theology” upon is a prophetic falsehood. He teaches that Daniel eight demonstrates that the power under discussion which came out of the kingdom of Greece is actually a further elaboration of the history of Greece and not the fourth kingdom of Rome. In doing this he attacks the correct Adventist understanding of 1844 and everything else connected with that correct understanding. His argument is based upon Daniel 8:9 which states:

And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

Ford argues that the little horn in the verse came out of one of the four horns of Greece and therefore cannot be Rome, for Rome was not a direct descendant of Greece. He then argues that the antichrist power in chapter eight must be Antiochus Epiphanes, and thus attacks the pillars of Adventism. An informed understanding of the verse at the level of the Hebrew language, demonstrates that the little horn came from one of the four winds, not one of the four horns. Yet on the 1850 chart and some ‘43 charts we see a graphic illustration that the little horn of Rome is connected with and descended from the four horns of Greece. I personally have no problem understanding the illustration and explaining it, but am not willing to say that this is the perfect way to graphically illustrate Daniel 8:8-9.

My personal understanding of what the word “mistake” and the expression that the chart “should not be altered” has been a development of thought. I no doubt took the position early on when I was being led back to the old paths that everything on the chart was perfect. I do not know if I ever made that claim publicly, but would not be surprised if this was so. And then as I began to wrap my mind around what the mistake was and what it meant to the debate of the east wind, I may have said things which appear that I am rejecting the idea that everything on the chart is correct. This is not what I understand. I understand the charts to be correct, but that there are elements on the charts that are not perfect due to the history when they were prepared and the human limitations to see beyond that history. I then reached the point where I understood that when we claim the charts are perfect we are making the reception of the truths connected with the old paths more difficult for some to receive. I then came to understand that the fullness of the year mistake, which is explained in Early Writings, pages 235 through 237 is an explanation of the passage on page 74. At that point I saw a prophetic implication that is more significant than what we have just been discussing.

There was a mistake concerning the 2300 and the 2520 that produced a purposeful testing of the Millerites. Now the very explanation of that mistake in their history is once again testing the end of Adventism as the Millerite history repeats to the very letter. In the passages under discussion in Early Writings the doctrines that are being referred to are the 2520, the 2300 and the “daily”, for in her statement concerning the chart she includes her pronouncement that those that gave the judgment hour cry had the correct view of the “daily”. Therefore the parallel to the first disappointment test, is the testing of the 2300, 2520 and the “daily” in connection with Habakkuk’s two tables. Therefore the parallel test has to do with these issues, and also the Spirit of Prophecy, for the commentary on these doctrines and the charts is found in Early Writings.

For me there is a great field of study when relating to these doctrines, the charts and their identification by the Spirit of Prophecy in the context of the parallel test of the first disappointment, for we can see the test of the old paths, the Spirit of prophecy, the gathering of the people represented by the 2520, the judgment of the living as represented by the 2300 and the law of God as represented by the two tables, along with the need of crucifixion of self as represented by the taking away of the “daily”. Wonderful themes are encapsulated in this repetition of history and it behooves us to be very careful in how we apply the understanding of these things in the context of this current testing process. Jeff Pippenger.

Once I sent this response I received the following from Sister C:

Brother Jeff,

Thank you for your answer you have given me something to investigate further. I understand where you are coming from in your saying that we need to be careful saying that there are no mistakes on the chart. I’m just coming from the angle that I hear all of the time that “the chart is full of mistakes,” so I know where those closest to me will try to take that. I guess this is something I need to put further study into. I find more and more I have much more studying to do.

I talked with someone the other day who fully believes that we are going to find a mistake on the 1850 chart that will sift God’s people. They think that His hand may be over a mistake on the 1850 chart. I believe that there may be something that we have to rethink but I am not at all convinced that it will have anything to do with the 1850 chart. I guess it could if history is repeated to the very letter but I have my doubts that it will come that way. We must ever be studying and praying for God to lead us. Tell Kathy hello for me. May God bless you both and your ministry. My son K really wants to attend your school when he is old enough. Keep us in your prayers as you are both in ours. Thank you for your time. Sister C.

I then answered Sister C as follows: 

Sister C,

I did not go into detail in the last email, but I don’t think it is an error on the 1850 chart that repeats the history of the first disappointment. I think the repeated test is Ellen White’s commentary on the chart on pages 74 and then 235–237.

We have been told we have nothing to fear for the future except as we forget the Lord’s teachings and leadings in our past experience. The teaching of the 2520 and the “daily” is what we have forgotten, and it is these very teachings that she addresses in those pages. It was those very truths (the 2520 and the 2300) that produced the experience of the first disappointment, and therefore it is that experience and those teachings that we should fear lest we forget.

The Millerites were tested by those teachings and the lived the experience, and we are now being tested by those same teachings once again, and have entered into the identical experience they found themselves in, for after the first disappointment they began to teach specifically that the 2300 and the 2520 which they first thought ended in 1843 actually ended in 1844. Because of these teachings the churches began to persecute them. And now, because of these identical teachings the persecution is being repeated, thus the experience is being repeated.

But this time we have the added testing of whether we will accept the inspiration of the Spirit of Prophecy in connection with these truths, thus the Spirit of Prophecy and the old paths become our first test. Along with that, we did not see the 2520 until the Lord removed His hand, so to speak.

You are in our prayers. Say hello to K, and the faithful in your neck of the woods. Happy Sabbath. Jeff.

The next morning I received this from Pastor R:

Hi Jeff, D, and C,

Good response, Jeff. Actually, I am of the same conviction and have shared this with others in regard to the prophetic accuracy of the two charts. Just recently I had an email dialogue with an SDA pastor who attempted to disparage the correct view of the “daily” and in the same breath tried to argue that Ellen White said that there were “mistakes” on the 1843 chart. I shared with him that the “mistake” (singular) was in reference to the reckoning of prophetic time in connection with the 2520 and 2300, that the pioneer view of the “daily” was correct and established by the year AD 508; but that it is true that there are some minor inaccuracies on both charts that do not affect our prophetic understanding of truth.

For example, at the bottom of the 1843 chart next to the date of 1843 it states “God’s Everlasting Kingdom”. This obviously proved to be inaccurate inasmuch as Christ did not come in that year—according to Millerite logic; but this does not affect the accuracy of their prophetic reasoning since this “mistake” led to the fulfillment of prophecy in the tarrying time and led to the light of the midnight cry. It is the same with the 1850 chart—there are also some minor irregularities on this as well. Under the “Image beast” is associated the number “666” which we understand (according to some clarifications later on in the 1860’s by James White and Uriah Smith during the Civil War conscription crisis) actually is more accurately connected with the first beast—the papacy— who has a “man” whose “name” numbers 666.

The point is, I agree with Brother Jeff’s conclusions that we cast stumbling blocks before the weak and ignorant when we make the wrong battle our battle. Claiming that the two charts are “infallible” opens up a door whereby our opponents claim that we are unreasonable and fanatical and thereby they end up “throwing out the baby with the bath water” and reject everything we teach. The Millerite logic was absolutely correct in how they laid the foundation of proof-text Bible interpretation methods to unlock Daniel and Revelation based on the day/year principle, and the two charts clearly illustrate the fundamental truths which comprise the first, second, and third angel’s message. However, those living especially before 1844, only had the light of truth that would reach until the coming of Christ in that expected year. As we now know, we have much greater light shining upon our pathway today: the 10 toes of Daniel 2; the 7 heads and 10 kings of Revelation 17; the number 666; the third woe relating to Islam rather than to the second coming of Christ as our pioneers taught; and the two beasts of Revelation 13 relating to Papal Rome and the United States.

While saying this, let me clarify that I, too, would defend the Millerite understanding of prophetic dates according to the history available. But it is clear that the following dates on the 1843 chart are debatable: 538 BC, 332 BC, 158 BC, AD 490, and 606 BC. Some other history gives these more accurate dates: 539 BC, 331 BC, 161 BC, AD 476, and 622 BC. This does not, however, negate the fact that the subjects of these dates are absolutely accurate. 539/8 BC refers to the overthrow of Babylon by the Medes and Persians; 332/1 BC refers to the overthrow of Medo-Persia by Alexander the Great in the Battle of Arbela; 161/158 BC refers to the league made between the Jews and Romans; AD 490/476 refers to the division of Rome into 10 kingdoms; and AD 606/622 refers to the rise of Islam through Mohammed. Some of the arguments for these dates become insignificant, in my opinion—such as the rise of Islam in AD 606 or 622—because Mohammed was teaching throughout these years and working to consolidate the Arab tribes; but the two dates refer to two different events in his life according to different histories which you read. I don’t believe that these dates are our argument. The subjects of these dates are to be defended, but not necessarily these specific dates. The dates that are our battle are the commencement dates of the chain of truth given to William Miller by the angel Gabriel: 677 BC, 457 BC, and AD 508 (which relates to the years 1843 and 1844).

I answered the question in regard to the league in 158 BC because it was my intention to show that the Millerites were correct in selecting that date based on the portion of 1 Maccabees they quoted on the chart (9:70, 71). The league which Uriah Smith quotes (161 BC) is based on an earlier history in this same book. Both events can be argued for (I personally believe, based on history, that Uriah Smith’s selection of 161 BC is probably more accurate according to an actual political “league” made between the Jews and Romans), but my point in my argument was to defend the Millerite understanding and accuracy of selecting 158 BC based on 1 Maccabees 9:70, 71 which is what they quoted from and put on the chart. Therefore, the history they used is correct.

There is another point which I suppose I won’t go into right now, but which has been made crystal clear in my mind just within the last month or so which I believe that we need to understand if we are going to claim to uphold the Millerite logic, and that is the “full year concept.” While in Germany I studied this out with another brother and light finally flooded into my mind (I will probably share this in Arkansas next month). But in our defense and explanation of the “mistake” in regard to the 1843 chart, we have (at least the majority of us, including myself in the past) incorrectly attempted to explain this issue as being a “zero year” problem; which is false. Nowhere in any of the pioneer writings do they ever discuss some “zero year”. This is a complete fallacy based on the misunderstanding and incorrect explanation of the modern day Adventist scholars who are completely ignorant of Millerite history, prophecy, and logic. If you simply add a one to the end of our prophetic chronology without taking into consideration the actual months in a year, you throw off the pinpoint accuracy of the autumn of 1844— specifically October 22. This I hope to explain more clearly soon on video. Keep studying folks! God bless and be with you all. Sincerely, PR. E.R.

The next morning I received the following email from Brother D:

Jeff,

Do you have an editorial committee? You are a good writer to say the least, but to use the 1863 chart arguments which were BETTER UNDERSTOOD AS HISTORY PROGRESSED, yes in some cases, but when there is a witness of two, BOTH charts say 490 under inspiration, that means something. We have to understand their significance and not alter them by our thinking. I understand how one can use 476, but I think a battle is brewing on this one. I am getting more interest on this newsletter than usual, and I am not one that likes to email. I am easy to misunderstand when I mean well. I get the basics of your earlier email and have more to learn. Kind regards Brother D.

I then responded as follows: 

Brother D,

By the way, I do think both charts are correct in representing that the fourth kingdom of Rome disintegrated into ten kingdoms. There isn’t anything on either chart that I think is incorrect, but I have been wrong before.

The controversy concerning the 1863 chart isn’t about whether James White and Uriah Smith were falsely claiming that they better understood history; it is about the rejection of a truth which is represented upon both the ‘43 and ‘50 charts. The truths on the two charts are the foundational truths and the pillar truths. I am willing to defend every one of those truths, but the 1863 chart began to reject them.

You also have represented on the ‘43 chart that Himes published the ‘43 chart and Nichols identifying that he published the ‘50 chart; thus providing two witnesses that human beings were involved in the production of both charts, which is quite different than the production of the Ten Commandments.

Both the Ten Commandments and Habakkuk’s tables represent Christ, and in this regard Habakkuk’s tables are representing that He took upon Himself fallen human flesh (Himes and Nichols)—though He never sinned. If we insist that there is no human imperfection on the tables, then we are echoing the claim that Christ took the nature of Adam before the fall, and we know this is not so. In spite of any weakness in terms of historical accuracy on the charts they represent the Truth, and He is the Truth, He never sinned and at this level there is no error on the charts. His willingness to accept fallen flesh after 4000 years of degeneration provides you and me with the example that we can have confidence that the tables are perfect though encumbered with the liabilities of humanities limitations. Your brother Jeff.

I have just one thought I want to add there. When you look closely at the Testimonies of the Bible prophets, of the foundations, such as Isaiah 58:12, we have been told, that we’ll have to return to and restore the old paths. When we get to the end of the world, we no longer remember what the foundations are. The Lord leads His people back to the foundations. One of the tools the Lord uses that lead us back to the foundations at the end of the world is the 1843 chart. When I am sharing this chart, there are many truths on this chart, and I ask the audience: Can you give a Bible study concerning the truths on this chart? Virtually no one in the audience will know what those truths are. The chart allows us to introduce the foundational truths and at the same time demonstrate to God’s people the need to reinvestigate what they are, because we no longer know what they are.

In an article in the Present Truth of November 1850 EGW stated, “The Lord showed me that the 1843 chart was directed by His hand, and that no part of it should be altered, that the figures were as He wanted them.” The kingdoms that destroyed Rome were uprooted by the Papacy, thus leaving seven. So, why does the feet of the metal and mud man of Daniel two have ten toes? Ten toes must represent Revelation 17:12–14, 16,17, not the seven remaining kingdoms of Europe. The chart shows the ankle of the Daniel 2 image as being 1798 (USA comes upon the scene). And, the Spirit of Prophecy says:

“We have come to a time when God’s sacred work is represented by the feet of the image in which the iron was mixed with the miry clay.” The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, volume 4, 1168.

“The mingling of church craft and state craft is represented by the iron and the clay.” Manuscript Releases, volume 1, 51.

As for the iron and the clay, Project Restore comments this way;

“Our position in the image of Nebuchadnezzar is represented by the toes, in a divided state among the nations of the earth, and of a crumbling material, that will not hold together.

“Besides referring to the divided state of the nations, in another sense, the mingling of church teaching and state power is represented by the iron and clay. This union of church and state whereby the teachings of the church are enforced by the power of the state is weakening the moral authority of the churches. Investing churches with the power of the state brings evil results.

“Now we come to the time when God’s sacred work is represented by the feet of the image in which the iron was mixed with miry clay. God has a people, a chosen people, whose discernment must be clear. If the governments of the world would honor God, they would stand in the strength of God. But vote-hungry statesmen will mingle their religious faith with the power of the state. In addition to representing the union of the nations of the earth, the mingling of churchcraft and statecraft is also represented by the iron and clay. This union is weakening all the power of the churches. Investing the church with the power of the state will bring evil results. Men have almost passed the point of God’s forbearance. They have invested their strength in politics. However, the time will come when God will punish them and their evil work will recoil upon themselves.”

Do we need a revised Chart for the generally accepted image of Daniel 2? I would greatly appreciate your inputs.

Response

I think we should use charts to present prophecy. We should develop new charts incorporating any and all available new light.

A friend forwarded me an email question and his answer to the question from another friend. His answer included an answer from Pastor R. I then answered. The following is the initial question:

Hi D,

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I was just reading the latest Future News [January 2013] in the first few pages if I understood correctly Jeff was saying that not everything was correct on the 1843 chart such as the date 158 BC as the league with the Jews and the Romans. Is this true? I thought that there was an explanation for that date. I thought I had heard you comment on it before so I am asking you. Can you explain? I didn’t think that there were any mistakes on that chart (except the ending year of 1843, instead of 1844 which really isn’t a mistake either).Thank you, C.

Brother D then answered Sister C with the following email:

Hi C,

Hope this finds you well. I think this answer was formulated from Pastor R…. “To answer your question about the league between the Jews and Romans, according to the 1843 prophecy chart, 1 Maccabees 9:70, 71 is quoted to show 158 BC as the date of the league. However, there were two different ‘leagues’ or peace treaties made with the Romans.

“According to Uriah Smith and also 1 Maccabees chapter 7:1 and chapter 8, the date of the first league was in 161 BC when the Romans and Jews made a peace agreement. This first peace treaty did not last however, because in that same year Bacchides, a loyal Roman ruler, made war against the Jews. In this war Judas Maccabeus was killed. Later his brother Jonathon took over leadership of the Jews. In the beginning of 159 BC Alcimus, the false high priest, died after attempting to tear down the walls of the temple and Bacchides left the Jews alone for 2 years (see 1 Macabees 9:54–57). The Jewish reckoning of time included the full year; therefore, the 2 years would include 159 and 158 BC. Bacchides came back again to battle sometime in 158 BC and lost to the Jews. When he returned to his own land the Jews once again asked for peace and it was granted. This was the second ‘league’ made between the Jews and Romans and this time it lasted longer. This league is found in 1 Maccabees 9:70, 71, and is quoted on the center column of the 1843 chart next to the year of 158 BC. The 1843 chart is therefore accurate about this date.

Brother D,

In response to this email dialogue being sent to me I answered it and mailed it to Brother D, Sister C, and Pastor R, for Pastor R had been referred to in the dialogue.

The following is my response:

Brothers D and Pastor R and Sister C,

I probably said that everything on the chart is not accurate, for I was settling into an understanding which is now more crystallized. My point is as follows:

Sister White’s statement about the Lord holding His hand over a mistake in the some of the figures is explained on pages 235 through 237 of Early Writings. The mistake is the “fullness of the year mistake” which caused the first disappointment on March 22, 1844. It is out of context to suggest that her statements means there are no other inaccuracies (mistakes) on the chart. Maybe there is maybe there is not, but my point is that her reference is referring to the mistake in some of the figures which the Lord held His hand over.

She also says the chart “should not be altered,” but in Spalding and Magan she says “it should not be altered, except by inspiration.” The altering of the chart by inspiration was accomplished with the production of the 1850 chart. The statement concerning the chart not being altered does not mean that the 1843 chart was perfect in every respect, other than the mistake of 1843 which He held His hand over. It means that the Lord would produce the second of Habakkuk’s two tables, and that when He did so it would be altered under His guidance and direction, and not by men. Both tables needed to be produced to fulfill Habakkuk two, and in the first table the Lord allowed a specific mistake that would be used to test the Millerites. His expression that the chart should not be altered can be understood as His Providential guidance, and once again does not have to be understood that it should not be altered because everything on the 1843 chart (other than the fullness of the year mistake) was perfect.

Moses’ two tables of the Ten Commandments were written by the finger of God, and were perfect and prefigured Habakkuk’s two tables. But Habakkuk’s two tables were “directed by the Lord,” not written by the His own finger. The Ten Commandments were perfect, but the 1843 and 1850 charts had human participation, and were subject to human imperfection and limitations, and the particular human limitations which the charts were both subject to was the history in which the Millerites lived.

My point for suggesting these things is as follows. The last deception of Satan is to make of none effect the Spirit of Prophecy. When the testing process began in Adventism on 9/11, the first of three tests is the old paths (as represented upon the 1843 and 1850 charts) and the Spirit of Prophecy.

I have no problem understanding all the figures on the chart as correct applications by the Millerites, but do not insist that the dates they placed on the charts as necessarily the best historical dates, except when they refer to time prophecies. If they had a date that was marked as the fulfillment of a time prophecy, then that date needed to be accurate, but when they employed dates to represent prophecies that had no element of time associated with them, then I see no need to argue that if a better date was found at a later time, that this would invalidate their application of the prophecy.

The ‘43 chart uses the year 490 to represent the time when the Roman Empire was divided into ten kingdoms, whereas Uriah Smith marks that history in 476. I do not believe that Sister White’s statement about the Lord holding “His hand over a mistake in some of the figures” should be defined as proving that 490 was the year when the Roman Empire became ten kingdoms. It is applying her statement differently than she defines it. She clearly identifies that the mistake was in regard to the 2520 and 2300 which they first believed would end in 1843 and thereafter in 1844.

I DO NOT think that 490 is a mistake on the chart in terms of the Millerites correctly applying that the division of the fourth kingdom in Daniel seven into ten kingdoms was incorrect. They were correct in applying the fourth kingdom as pagan Rome, and they were correct in identifying that pagan Rome disintegrated into ten kingdoms. The fact that the best historical information they had marked the conclusion of that history as the year 490 does not make their prophetic application wrong, even if thereafter there was recognized better historical arguments to assign the date as 476.

If they would have taught on the chart that the fourth kingdom of Daniel seven was China, and that at some point China would disintegrate into ten nations, they would have been wrong. But they did not do this. Their application was correct, and their choice of 490 as the year which marked the conclusion of this process is not a subject of any time prophecy, so it was acceptable for them to employ the best historical evidence which they then had. I am not even here arguing against the idea that maybe their choice of 490 is correct and Uriah Smith’s choice of 476 is wrong. I am arguing that the inspired commentary about the mistake on the chart which the Lord held His hand over, and the command not to alter the chart is not evidence that the chart was totally free from human imperfection.

My point is that the “mistake” that is being addressed is the fullness of the year mistake, and that as she explains this mistake on pages 235 through 237 of Early Writings she provides an absolute direct endorsement for the 2520. To argue that everything on the chart is perfect, based on her presentation of what the mistake was is to take her words further than she intended and also opens up an argument (stumbling block) concerning the perfection of the charts that is not necessary, and which provides those who wish to reject this subject with a criticism that is not demanded by her explanation of what the mistake was.

I have no problem defending every application of prophecy on either chart, but do not think that her reference to the mistake proves historically or grammatically that she was saying there were no other human imperfections on either chart. As an example, the charts identify that the ten toes were the divided Roman Empire, but prophecy teaches that the ten toes represent the United Nations at the end of the world. Ellen White plainly says:

“We have come to a time when God’s sacred work is represented by the feet of the image in which the iron was mixed with the miry clay. God has a people, a chosen people, whose discernment must be sanctified, who must not become unholy by laying upon the foundation wood, hay, and stubble. Every soul who is loyal to the commandments of God will see that the distinguishing feature of our faith is the seventhday Sabbath. If the government would honor the Sabbath as God has commanded, it would stand in the strength of God and in defense of the faith once delivered to the saints. But statesmen will uphold the spurious sabbath, and will mingle their religious faith with the observance of this child of the papacy, placing it above the Sabbath which the Lord has sanctified and blessed, setting it apart for man to keep holy, as a sign between Him and His people to a thousand generations. The mingling of churchcraft and statecraft is represented by the iron and the clay. This union is weakening all the power of the churches. This investing the church with the power of the state will bring evil results. Men have almost passed the point of God’s forbearance. They have invested their strength in politics, and have united with the papacy. But the time will come when God will punish those who have made void His law, and their evil work will recoil upon themselves.” The Seventh-day Adventists Bible Commentary, volume 4, 1168.

Sister White penned this in 1899. So in 1899 we reached the time of the iron and clay, but both charts say this was 490 according to the Millerites and 476 according to Uriah Smith. Yet we now know that Sister White was correct and that the ten toes of iron and clay take place at the end of the world, not sixteen hundred years ago. For me, I have no problem upholding the Millerite application based upon typology. The ten toes illustrate the United Nations at the end of the world, but there are several illustrations of the ten kings at the end of the world in God’s word. Each of the places where the United Nations is typified in the Scriptures is a type of the antitypical fulfillment of the United Nations at the end of the world, including the division of the Roman Empire in Daniel seven. Therefore the Millerites were making the correct application by identifying the ten toes as the dragon power, but they could not yet see the end of the world, so were incapable of applying those toes to the United Nations.

Their application was absolutely right in terms of Daniel seven and the division being the dragon power, but at another level it is not as accurate as it could have been if they had lived in 2013. There was no mistake in their prophetic application, but there is clearer light on the subject now, and Sister White’s commentary on the mistake the Lord held His hand over should not be used to teach that every representation on the chart is perfect, for if we do, that claim will be used by Satan to place stumbling blocks before men in order to prevent them from recognizing that her explanation of the mistake is also her direct endorsement of the 2520.

The 2520 being a symbol of the testing of the “old paths,” is directly connected to the testing on the issue of the Spirit of Prophecy with her direct endorsement of the 2520 in Early Writings, 235–237. Because this is such an important test for Seventh-day Adventists it demands that those being used to present the test to Adventism do not place a definition upon her identifying the “mistake” as something that goes beyond her actual definition.

I am familiar with Emiliano’s explanation of 158 BC and AD161, and have no problem with it, but personally would not make a great emphasis of it. The reason is as follows: The fact that Millerites correctly applied Daniel 11:23 as the league between the Romans and the Jews, shows that they were correctly applying God’s prophetic word. Their prophetic application was correct. But to explain 158 BC in terms of the perfection of the charts opens the door for the secondary, if not primary reason Miller chose 158 BC.

Miller applied this history as he did because he believed the first beast of Revelation 13 was pagan Rome, and therefore sought to apply Revelation 13:18 to pagan Rome. Miller applied 666 to pagan Rome and applied the 666 years from 158 BC through AD 508 as one the characteristics of pagan Rome. Thus, according to Miller the “wisdom,” or wise understanding of Revelation 13:18, is that 666 is a time prophecy connected with pagan Rome and that this is one of the prophetic characteristics of pagan Rome. Miller correctly understood and applied that the powers in Bible prophecy are introduced when they come into contact with God’s people. Thus pagan Rome came into contact with the Jews in fulfillment of Daniel 11:23 in 158 BC, and therefore 666 years afterward in AD 508, paganism gave way to papalism. 158 BC was more important to Miller than simply the league, for it identified 666 as one of the prophetic characteristics of the first beast of Revelation 13, which for the Millerites was pagan Rome. Miller understood 666 to represent the time which pagan Rome would prophetically rule, and that time was from 158 BC with the league of the Jews until AD 508 when the “daily” was taken away.

We no longer believe the first beast of Revelation 13 was pagan Rome. We know it was papal Rome. There is more than one problem with this application of Miller’s. If we incorporate the fact that the Millerites did not recognize the fullness of the year principle before 1844, then if we begin a time prophecy at the league of the Jews in 158 BC and extend it into history for 666 years, it would end in 509 not 508, unless of course the league Miller pointed out was accomplished on January 1,158 BC.

I see no need of fighting this battle with those who are struggling with or fighting against the truths of the old paths. The Millerites were correct in their application of Daniel 11:23 being a prophecy that demonstrated that a league between the Jews and the Romans would take place. There is no time prophecy connected with Daniel 11:23, so either 158 BC or AD 161 is sufficient to represent the history when it took place without demanding that every date or representation on the charts are perfect.

Let me repeat what I have already noted. I have no problem defending all the prophetic applications represented on both charts, for all the applications are correct. I simply no longer accept the premise that what has been stated about the charts on page 74 of Early Writings is correctly understood to mean the charts were perfect and free from human limitations.

The fundamental error which Desmond Ford erects his false “sin until Jesus returns theology” upon is a prophetic falsehood. He teaches that Daniel eight demonstrates that the power under discussion which came out of the kingdom of Greece is actually a further elaboration of the history of Greece and not the fourth kingdom of Rome. In doing this he attacks the correct Adventist understanding of 1844 and everything else connected with that correct understanding. His argument is based upon Daniel 8:9 which states:

And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

Ford argues that the little horn in the verse came out of one of the four horns of Greece and therefore cannot be Rome, for Rome was not a direct descendant of Greece. He then argues that the antichrist power in chapter eight must be Antiochus Epiphanes, and thus attacks the pillars of Adventism. An informed understanding of the verse at the level of the Hebrew language, demonstrates that the little horn came from one of the four winds, not one of the four horns. Yet on the 1850 chart and some ‘43 charts we see a graphic illustration that the little horn of Rome is connected with and descended from the four horns of Greece. I personally have no problem understanding the illustration and explaining it, but am not willing to say that this is the perfect way to graphically illustrate Daniel 8:8-9.

My personal understanding of what the word “mistake” and the expression that the chart “should not be altered” has been a development of thought. I no doubt took the position early on when I was being led back to the old paths that everything on the chart was perfect. I do not know if I ever made that claim publicly, but would not be surprised if this was so. And then as I began to wrap my mind around what the mistake was and what it meant to the debate of the east wind, I may have said things which appear that I am rejecting the idea that everything on the chart is correct. This is not what I understand. I understand the charts to be correct, but that there are elements on the charts that are not perfect due to the history when they were prepared and the human limitations to see beyond that history. I then reached the point where I understood that when we claim the charts are perfect we are making the reception of the truths connected with the old paths more difficult for some to receive. I then came to understand that the fullness of the year mistake, which is explained in Early Writings, pages 235 through 237 is an explanation of the passage on page 74. At that point I saw a prophetic implication that is more significant than what we have just been discussing.

There was a mistake concerning the 2300 and the 2520 that produced a purposeful testing of the Millerites. Now the very explanation of that mistake in their history is once again testing the end of Adventism as the Millerite history repeats to the very letter. In the passages under discussion in Early Writings the doctrines that are being referred to are the 2520, the 2300 and the “daily”, for in her statement concerning the chart she includes her pronouncement that those that gave the judgment hour cry had the correct view of the “daily”. Therefore the parallel to the first disappointment test, is the testing of the 2300, 2520 and the “daily” in connection with Habakkuk’s two tables. Therefore the parallel test has to do with these issues, and also the Spirit of Prophecy, for the commentary on these doctrines and the charts is found in Early Writings.

For me there is a great field of study when relating to these doctrines, the charts and their identification by the Spirit of Prophecy in the context of the parallel test of the first disappointment, for we can see the test of the old paths, the Spirit of prophecy, the gathering of the people represented by the 2520, the judgment of the living as represented by the 2300 and the law of God as represented by the two tables, along with the need of crucifixion of self as represented by the taking away of the “daily”. Wonderful themes are encapsulated in this repetition of history and it behooves us to be very careful in how we apply the understanding of these things in the context of this current testing process. Jeff Pippenger.

Once I sent this response I received the following from Sister C:

Brother Jeff,

Thank you for your answer you have given me something to investigate further. I understand where you are coming from in your saying that we need to be careful saying that there are no mistakes on the chart. I’m just coming from the angle that I hear all of the time that “the chart is full of mistakes,” so I know where those closest to me will try to take that. I guess this is something I need to put further study into. I find more and more I have much more studying to do.

I talked with someone the other day who fully believes that we are going to find a mistake on the 1850 chart that will sift God’s people. They think that His hand may be over a mistake on the 1850 chart. I believe that there may be something that we have to rethink but I am not at all convinced that it will have anything to do with the 1850 chart. I guess it could if history is repeated to the very letter but I have my doubts that it will come that way. We must ever be studying and praying for God to lead us. Tell Kathy hello for me. May God bless you both and your ministry. My son K really wants to attend your school when he is old enough. Keep us in your prayers as you are both in ours. Thank you for your time. Sister C.

I then answered Sister C as follows: 

Sister C,

I did not go into detail in the last email, but I don’t think it is an error on the 1850 chart that repeats the history of the first disappointment. I think the repeated test is Ellen White’s commentary on the chart on pages 74 and then 235–237.

We have been told we have nothing to fear for the future except as we forget the Lord’s teachings and leadings in our past experience. The teaching of the 2520 and the “daily” is what we have forgotten, and it is these very teachings that she addresses in those pages. It was those very truths (the 2520 and the 2300) that produced the experience of the first disappointment, and therefore it is that experience and those teachings that we should fear lest we forget.

The Millerites were tested by those teachings and the lived the experience, and we are now being tested by those same teachings once again, and have entered into the identical experience they found themselves in, for after the first disappointment they began to teach specifically that the 2300 and the 2520 which they first thought ended in 1843 actually ended in 1844. Because of these teachings the churches began to persecute them. And now, because of these identical teachings the persecution is being repeated, thus the experience is being repeated.

But this time we have the added testing of whether we will accept the inspiration of the Spirit of Prophecy in connection with these truths, thus the Spirit of Prophecy and the old paths become our first test. Along with that, we did not see the 2520 until the Lord removed His hand, so to speak.

You are in our prayers. Say hello to K, and the faithful in your neck of the woods. Happy Sabbath. Jeff.

The next morning I received this from Pastor R:

Hi Jeff, D, and C,

Good response, Jeff. Actually, I am of the same conviction and have shared this with others in regard to the prophetic accuracy of the two charts. Just recently I had an email dialogue with an SDA pastor who attempted to disparage the correct view of the “daily” and in the same breath tried to argue that Ellen White said that there were “mistakes” on the 1843 chart. I shared with him that the “mistake” (singular) was in reference to the reckoning of prophetic time in connection with the 2520 and 2300, that the pioneer view of the “daily” was correct and established by the year AD 508; but that it is true that there are some minor inaccuracies on both charts that do not affect our prophetic understanding of truth.

For example, at the bottom of the 1843 chart next to the date of 1843 it states “God’s Everlasting Kingdom”. This obviously proved to be inaccurate inasmuch as Christ did not come in that year—according to Millerite logic; but this does not affect the accuracy of their prophetic reasoning since this “mistake” led to the fulfillment of prophecy in the tarrying time and led to the light of the midnight cry. It is the same with the 1850 chart—there are also some minor irregularities on this as well. Under the “Image beast” is associated the number “666” which we understand (according to some clarifications later on in the 1860’s by James White and Uriah Smith during the Civil War conscription crisis) actually is more accurately connected with the first beast—the papacy— who has a “man” whose “name” numbers 666.

The point is, I agree with Brother Jeff’s conclusions that we cast stumbling blocks before the weak and ignorant when we make the wrong battle our battle. Claiming that the two charts are “infallible” opens up a door whereby our opponents claim that we are unreasonable and fanatical and thereby they end up “throwing out the baby with the bath water” and reject everything we teach. The Millerite logic was absolutely correct in how they laid the foundation of proof-text Bible interpretation methods to unlock Daniel and Revelation based on the day/year principle, and the two charts clearly illustrate the fundamental truths which comprise the first, second, and third angel’s message. However, those living especially before 1844, only had the light of truth that would reach until the coming of Christ in that expected year. As we now know, we have much greater light shining upon our pathway today: the 10 toes of Daniel 2; the 7 heads and 10 kings of Revelation 17; the number 666; the third woe relating to Islam rather than to the second coming of Christ as our pioneers taught; and the two beasts of Revelation 13 relating to Papal Rome and the United States.

While saying this, let me clarify that I, too, would defend the Millerite understanding of prophetic dates according to the history available. But it is clear that the following dates on the 1843 chart are debatable: 538 BC, 332 BC, 158 BC, AD 490, and 606 BC. Some other history gives these more accurate dates: 539 BC, 331 BC, 161 BC, AD 476, and 622 BC. This does not, however, negate the fact that the subjects of these dates are absolutely accurate. 539/8 BC refers to the overthrow of Babylon by the Medes and Persians; 332/1 BC refers to the overthrow of Medo-Persia by Alexander the Great in the Battle of Arbela; 161/158 BC refers to the league made between the Jews and Romans; AD 490/476 refers to the division of Rome into 10 kingdoms; and AD 606/622 refers to the rise of Islam through Mohammed. Some of the arguments for these dates become insignificant, in my opinion—such as the rise of Islam in AD 606 or 622—because Mohammed was teaching throughout these years and working to consolidate the Arab tribes; but the two dates refer to two different events in his life according to different histories which you read. I don’t believe that these dates are our argument. The subjects of these dates are to be defended, but not necessarily these specific dates. The dates that are our battle are the commencement dates of the chain of truth given to William Miller by the angel Gabriel: 677 BC, 457 BC, and AD 508 (which relates to the years 1843 and 1844).

I answered the question in regard to the league in 158 BC because it was my intention to show that the Millerites were correct in selecting that date based on the portion of 1 Maccabees they quoted on the chart (9:70, 71). The league which Uriah Smith quotes (161 BC) is based on an earlier history in this same book. Both events can be argued for (I personally believe, based on history, that Uriah Smith’s selection of 161 BC is probably more accurate according to an actual political “league” made between the Jews and Romans), but my point in my argument was to defend the Millerite understanding and accuracy of selecting 158 BC based on 1 Maccabees 9:70, 71 which is what they quoted from and put on the chart. Therefore, the history they used is correct.

There is another point which I suppose I won’t go into right now, but which has been made crystal clear in my mind just within the last month or so which I believe that we need to understand if we are going to claim to uphold the Millerite logic, and that is the “full year concept.” While in Germany I studied this out with another brother and light finally flooded into my mind (I will probably share this in Arkansas next month). But in our defense and explanation of the “mistake” in regard to the 1843 chart, we have (at least the majority of us, including myself in the past) incorrectly attempted to explain this issue as being a “zero year” problem; which is false. Nowhere in any of the pioneer writings do they ever discuss some “zero year”. This is a complete fallacy based on the misunderstanding and incorrect explanation of the modern day Adventist scholars who are completely ignorant of Millerite history, prophecy, and logic. If you simply add a one to the end of our prophetic chronology without taking into consideration the actual months in a year, you throw off the pinpoint accuracy of the autumn of 1844— specifically October 22. This I hope to explain more clearly soon on video. Keep studying folks! God bless and be with you all. Sincerely, PR. E.R.

The next morning I received the following email from Brother D:

Jeff,

Do you have an editorial committee? You are a good writer to say the least, but to use the 1863 chart arguments which were BETTER UNDERSTOOD AS HISTORY PROGRESSED, yes in some cases, but when there is a witness of two, BOTH charts say 490 under inspiration, that means something. We have to understand their significance and not alter them by our thinking. I understand how one can use 476, but I think a battle is brewing on this one. I am getting more interest on this newsletter than usual, and I am not one that likes to email. I am easy to misunderstand when I mean well. I get the basics of your earlier email and have more to learn. Kind regards Brother D.

I then responded as follows: 

Brother D,

By the way, I do think both charts are correct in representing that the fourth kingdom of Rome disintegrated into ten kingdoms. There isn’t anything on either chart that I think is incorrect, but I have been wrong before.

The controversy concerning the 1863 chart isn’t about whether James White and Uriah Smith were falsely claiming that they better understood history; it is about the rejection of a truth which is represented upon both the ‘43 and ‘50 charts. The truths on the two charts are the foundational truths and the pillar truths. I am willing to defend every one of those truths, but the 1863 chart began to reject them.

You also have represented on the ‘43 chart that Himes published the ‘43 chart and Nichols identifying that he published the ‘50 chart; thus providing two witnesses that human beings were involved in the production of both charts, which is quite different than the production of the Ten Commandments.

Both the Ten Commandments and Habakkuk’s tables represent Christ, and in this regard Habakkuk’s tables are representing that He took upon Himself fallen human flesh (Himes and Nichols)—though He never sinned. If we insist that there is no human imperfection on the tables, then we are echoing the claim that Christ took the nature of Adam before the fall, and we know this is not so. In spite of any weakness in terms of historical accuracy on the charts they represent the Truth, and He is the Truth, He never sinned and at this level there is no error on the charts. His willingness to accept fallen flesh after 4000 years of degeneration provides you and me with the example that we can have confidence that the tables are perfect though encumbered with the liabilities of humanities limitations. Your brother Jeff.

Hi Brother Jeff,

I have a question for you in regards to Daniel 8. If you could manage to spare a few moments of your valuable time to help answer my query, I would be most appreciative. I recently listened to Brother E. give his thoughts that the chazon vision refers to the 2520, and the mareh is referring to the 2300, within the context of Daniel 8. I do see much logic in what he is saying, but I’m confused as to which 2520 it refers. In Dan 8:17 we are informed that, “at the time of the end shall be the vision.” Now if we go along with other parts of Daniel, the time of the end is 1798. That would make the chazon refer to the first 2520, unless of course this time of the end refers to 1844, as the end of the last great time prophecy, the second 2520. In verse 19 we are told that we are to “know what shall be in the last end of the indignation,” which I understand to be the end of the second 2520. I am confused because of the question that arises in verse 13 “How long shall be the vision (chazon), concerning the Daily (paganism), and the transgression of desolation (papalism), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden underfoot? I am confused because these two desolating powers finished in 1798, and if the mareh is a snapshot of the chazon, the 2300 goes on to 1844, which is not part of this vision. Could you give some clarity to this for me please, it is probably something very simple I am overlooking, or fail to understand? With kind regards, Brother M.

Response

Dear Brother M,

Of course it is always better to ask the one who teaches a thing what he means, rather than another, but I see the issue you are identifying, so I will give it a shot.

The Millerites saw both 2520’s but struggled on how to apply them. Some chose to apply only one, and Miller, seeing both, had some misconceptions about their relationship to each other. Therefore the Millerites discovered this truth, but the clarity concerning them is only being opened up to us now.

One thing that was not initially recognized, and may not even now be recognized by some is that the 2520, though at one level is two distinct prophecies against two kingdoms, at another level is also just one prophecy. By that I mean that they should be identified in their singular applications, but also as a whole. When we approach them as a whole, then we fithat from 723BC to 677BC was the scattering process, and from 1798 to 1844 was the gathering process. The initial forty-six years and the ending fortysix years represent the scattering and then the gathering.

When we fi Daniel 8:17 representing the time of the end in 1798, and also emphasize that this is the chazon vision, we should probably go the extra mile and explain that there are two “times” of the Gentiles, one ending in 1798 and the other in 1844. Therefore, for Gabriel to mark the time of the end in 1798, and identify that as the chazon vision, does not deny the 2520 as the chazon, for the trampling down of the sanctuary and the host ended in 1844 according to Daniel 8:14 in agreement with the “second” time of the Gentiles, and the trampling down also ended in 1798 according to Revelation 11:2 in agreement with the “first” time of the Gentiles. 1798 is the time of the end when the forty-six year period of the gathering arrived.

It is easy for us to see and understand a single day or single year for the beginning or the end of a prophecy, but what I am saying is that the forty-six year period that marks the beginning and ending of this prophecy can be correctly applied as Gabriel did in 1798, even though the full period of the gathering did not end until 1844. The forty-six years at the beginning is marking the scattering of two nations and the forty-six years at the end is marking the gathering of one nation. I, of course, am uncertain how Brother E. would answer you, so I am sending our dialogue to him, for he is generally willing to defend his own thoughts. Jeff.

When we first came to understand the 2520 we wanted to present what we understood about it. We had two weekend meetings planned back to back in two different cities with several hours the first weekend and several hours the second weekend. We recorded all presentations both weekends and I think we ended up with 25 hours in one language, in order to deal with the 2520. For you to ask me to shrink down the significance of the 2520 into an interview is… Some people can probably do it, but I don’t have the ability.

One thing of importance: It’s a time prophecy. It works on the year-day principle. Every Seventh-day Adventist is familiar with the year-day principle. Very few Seventh-day Adventists have ever heard of the 2520, but all of the Millerite preachers preached the 2520 – every one of them. As God leads his end of the world people back to the foundational truths of Adventism, He designed the 2520 and placed it upon the chart as a simple tool that would be easily understood by Adventists. It is simply the year-day principle in order to stimulate their sanctified curiosity to investigate the foundations.

I have taught the 2520 to hundreds of Seventh-day Adventists that never knew it. The first time they see it, they understand it. They may not have tested it to see if it’s true but they understand simply because it’s a year-day time prophecy. I believe the Lord uses the 1843 chart and the 2520 as a hook to lead His people back to the foundations. The Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy teach specifically that the foundations are not going to be accepted by the majority of Adventists at the end of the world. Let’s read once again from Jeremiah 6:16. We’ve read it already, and all the prophets are speaking about the end of the world. “Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.” When we return to the old paths there is going to be a group of us that refuse to do so.

Jeff,

Quick question: If the first and second woe was the Ottoman’s, shouldn’t we expect Turkey to be the third woe too. If we are going to say the characteristics of the first and second have to match the third, then this is a pretty major just to be a “coincidence” (that first and second were both exactly the same nation). Thanks and God bless, AS.

Response

Brother AS,

The first woe was Islam of Arabia, and the second Islam of the Ottomans, thus the third woe is Islam worldwide. Arabian Islam and Ottoman Islam are two different cultures. Jeff.

Brother Jeff,

I was wondering how you see the Moslem world fit in Daniel and Revelation. Does China (i.e. atheistic communist) have any roll to play in the end time, other than we know that the whole world will follow the Papacy (final healing of the political wound)?

Thank you again for your ministry and may God continue to bless your work…

Response

We have travelled to Asia several times, but work with the Moslem people is a new prospect for us. The Moslem world is as the pioneers understood it, plus a bit more. The Molsems are identified under the fifth and sixth trumpets of Revelation 9. The pioneers understood the trumpets to represent judgments that were brought against Rome and the fifth and sixth were the judgments brought against papal Rome. The book of Revelation is placed in the context of the Sanctuary and it should be understood that the trumpet was one of the furnishings of the sanctuary.

A brief study of the trumpets in the sanctuary confirms that they were used in association with judgment, so the pioneers correctly applied the trumpets in terms of the sanctuary setting, but the trumpets were also used to illustrate deliverance. Part of the story of the Moslems in Revelation 9, that was largely or totally missed by the pioneers, was the truth that the Moslem world, while bringing judgment to papal Rome, was simultaneously providing an environment for the success of the Protestant Reformation. While bringing judgment, they were also providing deliverance for those who were opposing Catholicism within Europe. In this context we can see that the descendants of Ishmael, (the Moslem world) is today the catalyst for bringing together the one-world government of Bible prophecy in fulfillment of the prophecy of Ishmael’s descendants:

And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. Genesis 16:11–12.

But at the same time the Moslem world is uniting the world in preparation for the Sunday law persecution, we should expect their influence to provide some type of environment, which opens the way for the furtherance of the later rain message, as it goes forth in a loud cry.

Concerning your question about China, I see it as fully impacted by the latter rain message, for the promise is that many shall come from the land of Sinnim, which was Isaiah’s way of saying China:

Behold, these shall come from far: and, lo, these from the north and from the west; and these from the land of Sinnim. Isaiah 49:12.

But in terms of prophetic symbolism I believe China is outside the scope of prophetic identification. By that I mean that the end time scenario in Bible prophecy is developed from the ancient geographical area where the Old Testament is set. The local persons, places, geographies, histories, ect. that are recorded are pointing forward to the end of the world with an application of those local persons, places, ect. as having a worldwide application. The Lord chose a specific area to represent the entire world at the end of time. When using this principle at the end of the world Sister White identifies a specific geographical area to apply Bible prophecy. She calls this Christendom. She teaches that it is within Christendom where Bible prophecy will be acted out. This does not mean the entire world is not impacted by the gospel, it simply means that when seeking to align the symbols of end-time Bible Prophecy correctly, we should look for fulfillment within the geographical area known as Christendom. China is outside this area, as is India and the Far East, etc.. Primarily Christendom is Europe and the Americas.

“The so-called Christian world is to be the theater of great and decisive actions… In the great conflict between faith and unbelief the whole Christian world will be involved. All Christendom will be divided into two great classes—those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and those who worship the beast and his image and receive his mark.

“As the Sabbath has become the special point of controversy throughout Christendom and religious and secular authorities have combined to enforce the observance of the Sunday, the persistent refusal of a small minority to yield to the popular demand will make them objects of universal execration.

“As the decree issued by the various rulers of Christendom against commandment keepers shall withdraw the protection of government, and abandon them to those who desire their destruction, the people of God will flee from the cities and villages and associate together in companies, dwelling in the most desolate and solitary places.” Last Day Events, 131.

Dear Jeff,

I can’t figure out from what you wrote in the March issue why you prefer to put the end of the 6th trumpet and the beginning of the 7th in 1844 instead of 1840 like the pioneers did. Where did I miss it? Or is it in the April issue and I missed it there?

I will pray constantly that hearts will be open to receive the love of the truth during your current round of meetings in Europe. Carry on, “conquering and to conquer” brother! PR.

Response

The argument there is a large argument, and it will take some time to lay out. I am simply trying to awaken a curiosity to the subject before I address it. Most people don’t know or care why or when the sixth trumpet ended. Jeff.

Brother PR Replies

Ok, I, for one, am curious…. We want to have a love for the truth and want to know what the truth is. A correct understanding of what happened back then when the sixth trumpet ended should help those of us who are interested to nail down other points of prophecy, and possibly help us understand how it will replay as history repeats at the end. Knowing what God is doing will help us know what we should be doing in order to cooperate with Him and be ready for Jesus’ appearing. PR.

Response

Dear Brother PR,

As you know we have been attempting to deal with the seven trumpets of Revelation eight and nine in this year’s issues of the Future News. I briefly identified that I did not agree with the pioneer position that the sixth trumpet concluded on August 11, 1840. I will now try and set forth my thinking on this subject, but it requires a little introduction. About three years ago, a friend of mine was drawn into a study of Islam. Initially we both spent time investigating the subject, but ultimately he continued into a deeper study of the subject and our mutual participation with one another on the subject concluded. Before that time period I was virtually uninformed on the subject of Islam in Bible prophecy, and I still have much to learn. My first point is that what I have come to understand of Islam in Bible prophecy is rather recent for myself. I am stating this because the fifth, sixth and seventh trumpet are dealing with Islam, as well as a few other important truths.

In order to understand Islam in Bible prophecy a conscientious Seventh-day Adventist must consider the pioneer understanding of the trumpets. To not do so is to not be conscientious. The pioneers had a very specific understanding of the trumpets, and their understanding included the position that the fifth and sixth trumpet symbolized Islam. Many in Adventism today reject the pioneer understanding of the trumpets, but to do so without first considering their thinking on the subject is less than conscientious, it’s heretical. To suggest an understanding about the trumpets to modern Seventh-day Adventists that is in disagreement with the pioneer position requires that the teacher of the new understanding also explains why the pioneers were wrong. The pioneers of course were correct, but far too many reject the pioneer positions without even acknowledging that the pioneers had formed an understanding on the subject at hand.

For me, I fully accept the pioneer understanding of the trumpets, with a few different conclusions that I do not believe changes the primary understanding of the pioneers. Those different conclusions I will explain, and attempt to do so in a fashion that while disagreeing with the pioneers, still upholds the fact that they were men that were being directed by the Lord during the foundational time period of God’s remnant church.

To understand the seven trumpets, we must understand the seven churches and the seven seals. Prophetically the churches, seals and trumpets are interlocked with each other. The sixth church brings us to the Millerite time-period. The sixth seal brings us to the Millerite time-period, and the sixth trumpet brings us to the Millerite time-period. Today we are in the Laodicean time-period, when the seventh seal is being removed and the seventh trumpet is sounding.

Within the prophetic passage setting forth the churches, seals and trumpets we have three important truths that are interjected into the narrative. In chapters four and five we see the Lion of the tribe of Judah opening the booked that is sealed. The sixth seal raises a question that introduces the 144,000, and when we reach the point of the sounding of the seventh trumpet we have the Millerite movement inserted into the passage.

Christ, the Lion of the tribe of Judah is identified as the One who unseals the book. Christ is in control of not only the unfolding of history, but in the unfolding of prophetic light which shines forth from the sacred pages. The unfolding of the prophetic light is the instrument that Christ uses to direct His people.

He unsealed the book of Daniel in the Philadelphia time period to the Millerites and brought forth a great revival which established God’s remnant people. These were the people who were chosen to develop into the 144,000 of chapter seven. Chapter ten is an illustration of Christ unfolding the little book of Daniel unto the Millerites. In the time period of the sixth church, Christ, the Lion of the tribe of Judah unsealed the book of Daniel in order to begin the process of developing a people who would perfectly reflect His character to a dying world. He accomplished this action during the history portrayed by the sixth seal, when the prophetic manifestations identified in His word that warned of His soon return appeared. The specific truths that He employed to accomplish the empowerment of the Millerite movement were the prophetic truths contained in the message of the trumpets. Revelation chapters two through ten must be considered as a complete passage.

The churches, the seals and trumpets all reach their conclusion in the time when the 144,000 are prepared to stand. The churches, seals and trumpets are more concerned with the development of the 144,000 than any of the other histories which they represented in the previous churches, seals and trumpets. Revelation two through ten is emphasizing the development of the 144,000.

A friend of mine determined to produce a chart which contained several truths of Bible prophecy. He asked for my input on the information before he had it published.

Although I do not remember the specifics of my comments on the chart I know that his memory is excellent, and that he is an honest man. After the chart had been produced I told him that I thought he should have illustrated that the sixth trumpet concluded on October 22, 1844, not August 11, 1840 as the pioneers teach. This was a frustration for him, for in the past when he had asked for my input I had upheld the pioneer position of August 11, 1840 as the conclusion of the sixth trumpet. I am certain that I had given him the council which he followed in agreement with the pioneers, but time had passed and I had concluded that the pioneers missed an important factor of the fifth, sixth and seventh trumpets. My friend’s frustration was valid for he had already produced the chart.

Soon after our realization I sent him a long email setting forth the prophetic reasons for my new understanding. I asked him if he would be willing to have an interaction through email on this subject that we could include in a newsletter, with the purpose of opening up this prophetic discussion. He sent back an email and informed me that he did not want to participate in that type of dialogue, and that it could have negative consequences to have a public disagreement in the newsletter. I did not agree, but our friendship was more important in my mind than to cause him undue anxiety. I figured an open discussion would simply be a means of fine tuning a minor aspect of prophecy, but I dropped the subject and deleted my long email. Last summer we attended meetings in Europe.

While in Germany and then Switzerland a handful of people began to confront me with a position that was supposedly evidence that what I was teaching about the woes and Islam was incorrect. I had never been confronted with the argument, though I knew it had to be wrong. As I worked through the argument I came across evidence that the sixth trumpet did not concluded on August 11, 1840. The evidence was beyond the reasons that I had come to understand from the simple rules of prophecy. The evidence is unique, and no doubt will be a stumbling block to some, but I viewed it as the Lord’s voice telling me that I did need to publicly set forth the reasons why the sixth trumpet concluded, not on August 11, 1840, but on October 22, 1844.

Most Seventh-day Adventists understand that the Lord called three people to the prophetic office in the Millerite time period. The first two men, Hazen Foss and William Foy turned away from the calling, but Ellen Gould Harmon accepted. Here at the end of time modern Seventh-day Adventists generally are not very acquainted with the dynamics that took place in connection with the calling of Foss, Foy, and Harmon, but the pioneers were. When the pioneers set forth their early explanations and defense of the prophetic role of Ellen White they would often take time to identify the history of the calling of Foss and Foy to show that the Lord was active in establishing a prophet among His remnant people. The pioneer position is that Foss and Foy were genuinely called to be prophets. The pioneers do not identify the calling of Foss and Foy as some type of satanic deception that was brought upon these two men, but as a true and genuine calling from the God of heaven. In the Review and Herald, July 18, 1899, J. N. Loughborough wrote the following article:

“Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians1:6, 7.

“This ‘testimony of Jesus,’ as we have learned from Revelation 19, is ‘the spirit of prophecy;’ and from the scripture just quoted, we see that the prophetic gift was to be with the people who were proclaiming and waiting for the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. “About 1833, but more especially since 1840, a message has been sounding through the earth proclaiming the coming of Christ near at hand, ‘even at the door.’ In connection with this proclamation the Lord has been pleased to manifest the power of the Spirit in various ways, and in a marked manner. In many instances, not only in America, but in other lands, the Lord has been gracious to his people who have been engaged in heralding the glad tidings of our returning Lord, by speaking to them through the gift of prophecy. Attention is here called to some instances of this character in America.

“The first to be noticed is that of a godly man,—a well-educated and talented minister by the name of William Foy, who resided in Boston, Mass. At two different times during the year 1842, the Lord came so near to him that he was wrapped in holy vision. One of these occasions was on January 18, and the other was on February 4. By invitation he went from city to city to tell of the wonderful things he had seen; and in order to accommodate the vast crowds who assembled to hear him, large halls were secured, where he related to thousands what had been shown him of the heavenly world, the loveliness of the New Jerusalem and of the angelic hosts. When dwelling upon the tender, compassionate love of Christ for poor sinners, he exhorted the unconverted to seek God, and scores responded to his tender entreaties.

“Brother Foy’s work continued until the year 1844, near the close of the twenty-three hundred days. Then he was favored with another manifestation of the Holy Spirit,—a third vision was given,—one which he did not understand. In this he was shown the pathway of the people of God through to the heavenly city. He saw a great platform, on which multitudes of people gathered. Occasionally one would drop through his platform out of sight, and of such a one it was said to him, ‘Apostatized.’ Then he saw the people rise to a second platform, and some of these also dropped through the platform out of sight; and finally a third platform appeared, which extended to the gates of the holy city. A great company gathered with those who had advanced to this platform. As he expected the Lord Jesus to come in a very short time, he failed to recognize the fact that a third message was to follow the first and second messages of Revelation 14. Consequently the vision, to him, was inexplicable, and he ceased public speaking. After the close of the prophetic period, in the year 1845, he heard another relate the same vision, with the explanation that ‘the first and second messages had been given, and that a third was to follow.’ Soon after this, however, Brother Foy sickened and died.

“Another instance of the manifestation of the gift of prophecy is found in the case of a young man who resided in Poland, by the name of Hazen Foss. He was a man of fine appearance, pleasing address, with a good academic education. In the month of September, 1844, about six weeks before the close of the twenty-three hundred days, the Lord gave him a vision, in which he, like Brother Foy, was shown the ‘three platforms’ in the heavenly pathway. Some messages of warning to individuals were also given him, which he was instructed to deliver. In connection with this he was shown the trials and persecutions that would follow if he was faithful in relating what had been shown to him. As he also was expecting the Lord to come ‘in a few more days’ (as they then sang), he did not understand the third step (‘platform’) in the journey; and shrinking from the cross, he refused to relate the vision. The view was repeated to him; and in addition to the first, he was told that if he still refused to tell what had been shown him, the burden would be taken from him, and given to one of the weakest of the Lord’s children, one who would faithfully narrate what God would reveal. Again he refused. A third vision was given him, a very short one, in which he was told that he was released, and was shown the person upon whom the Lord had laid the burden, ‘one of the weakest of the weak, who would do the Lord’s bidding.’

“This startled the young man, who at once appointed a meeting on McGuire Hill, Poland, Me., for the purpose of relating what had been revealed to him. The people crowded together to see and hear him. He carefully related his experience,—how he had refused to relate what the Lord had shown him, and what would result from his refusal. ‘Now,’ said he, ‘I will tell you the vision.’ But, alas! it was too late. It had gone from him. Not a word could he recall. He wrung his hands in anguish, saying, ‘God has fulfilled his word. He has taken the vision from me. I am a lost man.’ From that time the man lived without hope, and died in 1893.” The Prophetic Gift, 27–28, Review and Herald, July 18, 1899.

So you may ask what this has to do with the sixth trumpet? While in the German meetings a brother or two began to confront me with an argument that in their mind proved that what I was saying about the three woes was erroneous. I spent little time even reacting to them, for their argument seemed improbable, and some of their other thoughts throughout the week of meetings had led me to have very little confidence in their overall understanding of prophecy. When the meetings concluded we moved on to the next camp meeting in Switzerland. When there, a brother also confronted me with the very same argument about the trumpets. His approach was more reasoned, so I realized I needed to investigate his argument, though I believed from an abundance of sound prophetic arguments that the point that was being raised could not be valid. The argument was that William Foy was given a vision in 1842, and that in the vision he was told that the sixth trumpet had not yet sounded. Their argument then was that the pioneer position concerning the trumpets was incorrect, for the pioneers believed the sixth trumpet ended on August 11, 1840 with the fulfillment of the time prophecy of Revelation 9:15.

Did Foy receive a vision in 1842 where he was told about the sixth trumpet? Yes! Was he told that it had not yet sounded in 1842? No. But when that vision was translated into German, the German translation twisted the statement to say that in 1842 the sixth trumpet had “not yet sounded.” This vision by Foy was the key for Adventists in Europe to reject the pioneer position on the trumpets and begin to set forth their erroneous ideas about the trumpets being a fulfillment of events at the end of the world. So what did Foy actually receive in vision concerning the trumpets?

Joseph Bates wrote a pamphlet where he dealt with Willaim Foy’s visions. It was titled, The Christian Experience of William Foy, Together with the Two Visions he Received in the Months of January and February 1842 In it as Foy describes the second vision he states:

“Against his breast, and across his left hand, was as it were, a trumpet of pure silver; and a great and terrible voice came from the midst of the boundless place, saying, ‘The sixth angel hath not yet done sounding.’”

In 1842 William Foy was told that the sixth trumpet had “not yet done sounding”. When this passage was translated into German the translator stated in German that the voice had stated “the sixth angel has not yet sounded.” If the sixth trumpet had not sounded in 1842, then the Millerite message of the trumpets was erroneous and the foundations of Adventism are destroyed. But that is not what the “terrible voice” from “boundless space” stated. The “voice” stated that in 1842 the sixth trumpet was still sounding.

Although the pioneers taught that the spiritual manifestation of William Foy was inspired by the spirit of the Lord, and although they taught that the sixth trumpet ceased to sound on August 11, 1840, they evidently never recognized the dilemma that they were in. They upheld two thoughts, which are in opposition to each other.

Am I saying that William Foy’s vision is the reason I believe the sixth trumpet ceased to sound on October 22, 1844? Not at all, for prophecy, long before the Lord providentially brought this insight to light.

Hi can you help? Traditionally the 150 years of the fifth trumpet ends on 27^th July 1449, but Constantine XIII or Deacozes was emperor from January 1449. We state it was from 27th of July 1449 according to Josiah Litch. Can you help? MB.

Response

Dear MB,

It is not simply Litch who cites historians for this fulfillment, but also Smith in Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation. Smith acknowledges that some historians disagree with July 27, 1449, but insists he has chosen the best historians:

“In the year 1449, John Palaeologus, the Greek emperor, died, but left no children to inherit his throne, and Constantine, his brother, succeeded to it.*** But he would not venture to ascend the throne without the consent of Amurath, the Turkish sultan. He therefore sent ambassadors to ask his consent, and obtained it before he presumed to call himself sovereign.

“Let this historical fact be carefully examined in connection with the prediction given above. This was not a violent assault made on the Greeks, by which their empire was overthrown and their independence taken away, but simply a voluntary surrender of that independence into the hands of the Turks. The authority and supremacy of the Turkish power was acknowledged when Constantine virtually said, ‘I cannot reign unless you permit.’

“The four angels were loosed for an hour, a day, a month, and a year, a to slay the third part of men. This period, during which Ottoman supremacy was to exist, amounts to three hundred ninety-one years and fifteen days. Thus: A prophetic year is three hundred and sixty prophetic days, or three hundred and sixty literal years; a prophetic month, thirty prophetic days, is thirty literal years; one prophetic day is one literal year; and an hour, or the twenty-fourth part of a prophetic day.

“But although the four angels were thus loosed by the voluntary submission of the Greeks, yet another doom awaited the seat of empire. Amurath, the sultan to whom the submission of Constantine XIII was made, and by whose permission he reigned in Constantinople, soon after died, and was succeeded in the empire, in 1451, by Mohammed II, who set his heart on securing Constantinople as the seat of his empire.

“He accordingly made preparations for besieging and taking the city. The siege commenced on the 6th of April, 1453, and ended in the capture of the city, and the death of the last of the Constantines, on the 16thday of May following. And the eastern city of the Caesars became the seat of the Ottoman empire.

*** “Some historians have given this date as 1448, but the best authorities sustain the date here given, 1449. See Chamber’s Encyclopedia, art., Palaeologus.” Thoughts on Daniel and the Revelation, 508–509.

I agree with Smith for a prophetic reason. First let me quote Smith once more. Smith identifies the starting of the one hundred fifty year prophecy of the fifth trumpet:

“VERSE 10–11:. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

“Thus far, Keith has furnished us with illustrations of the sounding of the first five trumpets. But we must now take leave of him, and proceed to the application of the new feature of the prophecy here introduced; namely, the prophetic periods.

“Their Power Was to Hurt Men Five Months.—1. The question arises, What men were they to hurt five months?—Undoubtedly the same they were afterward to slay (see verse 15); ‘The third part of men,’ or third of the Roman empire,—the Greek division of it.

“2. When were they to begin their work of torment? The 11th verse answers the question. (1) ‘They had a king over them.’ From the death of Mohammed until near the close of the thirteenth century, the Mohammedans were divided into various factions under several leaders, with no general civil government extending over them all. Near the close of the thirteenth century, Othman founded a government which has since been known as the Ottoman government, or empire, which grew until it extended over all the principal Mohammedan tribes, consolidating them into one grand monarchy.

“(2) The character of the king. ‘Which is the angel of the bottomless pit.’ An angel signifies a messenger, a minister, either good or bad, and not always a spiritual being. ‘The angel of the bottomless pit,’ or chief minister of the religion which came from thence when it was opened. That religion is Mohammedanism, and the sultan is its chief minister. ‘The Sultan, or grand Seignior, as he is indifferently called, is also Supreme Caliph, or high priest, uniting in his person the highest spiritual dignity with the supreme secular authority.’—World As It Is, 361.

“(3) His name. In Hebrew, ‘Abaddon,’ the destroyer; in Greek, ‘Apollyon,’ one that exterminates, or destroys. Having two different names in two languages, it is evident that the character, rather than the name of the power, is intended to be represented. If so, as expressed in both languages, he is a destroyer. Such has always been the character of the Ottoman government.

“But when did Othman make his first assault on the Greek empire?—According to Gibbon, Decline and Fall, etc., ‘Othman first entered the territory of Nicomedia on the 27th day of July, 1299.’

“The calculations of some writers have gone upon the supposition that the period should begin with the foundation of the Ottoman empire; but this is evidently an error; for they were not only to have a king over them, but were to torment men five months. But the period of torment could not begin before the first attack of the tormentors, which was, as above stated, July 27, 1299.

“The calculation which follows, founded on this starting-point, was made and published in a work entitled, Christ’s Second Coming, etc., by J. Litch, in 1838.

“‘And their power was to hurt men five months.’ Thus far their commission extended, to torment by constant depredations, but not politically to kill them. ‘Five months,’ thirty days to a month, give us one hundred and fifty days; and these days, being symbolic, signify one hundred and fifty years. Commencing July 27, 1299, the one hundred and fifty years reach to 1449. During that whole period the Turks were engaged in an almost perpetual warfare with the Greek empire, but yet without conquering it. They seized upon and held several of the Greek provinces, but still Greek independence was maintained in Constantinople. But in 1449, the termination of the one hundred and fifty years, a change came, the history of which will be found under the succeeding trumpet.” Ibid., 506–507.

It is not simply that the date of July 27, 1449 has historical confirmation, but also that the date is consistent with the previous time prophecy. July 27, 1449 fits for the end of the 150 years of the fifth trumpet, as well as the beginning of the three hundred ninety-one year fifteen days of Revelation 9:15.

Sister White confirmed the prediction of Litch and the Millerites:

“At the very time specified, Turkey, through her ambassadors, accepted the protection of the allied powers of Europe, and thus placed herself under the control of Christian nations. The event exactly fulfilled the prediction. (See Appendix.) When it became known, multitudes were convinced of the correctness of the principles of prophetic interpretation adopted by Miller and his associates, and a wonderful impetus was given to the advent movement. Men of learning and position united with Miller, both in preaching and in publishing his views, and from 1840 to 1844 the work rapidly extended.” The Great Controversy, 335.

Men have desired to open a door to push their foolish ideas about some end of the world fulfillment of the trumpets and in so doing they attack the pioneer position on the trumpets, probably without recognizing that the fulfillment of Revelation 9:15, was when the first angel’s message is located in history. We have been warned about trying to move the three messages, but men still blindly attempt to do so.

“The proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages has been located by the word of Inspiration. Not a peg or pin is to be removed. No human authority has any more right to change the location of these messages than to substitute the New Testament for the Old.” Counsels to Writers and Editors, 26.

The passage in The Great Controversy is not the only place where Sister White endorses the pioneer position of the trumpets. She also teaches that we are not to spend time discussing theories that destroy established prophetic truth:

“There must be no long discussions, presenting new theories in regard to the prophecies which God has already made plain.” Evangelism, 199.

The pioneer position of the trumpets was made plain and endorsed by inspiration through Ellen White. Notice what she says about the message of 1843:

“We have, as had John, a message to bear of the things which we have seen and heard. God is not giving us a new message. We are to proclaim the message that in 1843 and 1844 brought us out of the other churches.” Review and Herald, January 19, 1905.

The message that was proclaimed in 1843 that brought the people out of the churches was the message illustrated on the 1843 Pioneer Chart, which in Early Writings page 74, we are told “I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord”. The 1843 Pioneer Chart includes the message of the trumpets of Revelation 8 and 9, including the time prophecies of the fifth and sixth trumpet! The fact that some historians date the ascension of Deacozes in January 1449 is simply a testimony to Satan’s efforts to destroy the foundations of Adventism. Hope this helps. Jeff.

In Revelation 10:4, you’ll find something that is sealed up. We’ve already established that Jesus illustrates the end from the beginning, and we gave a couple of arguments that Millerite history is repeated at the end of the world in the history of the 144,000. Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, volume 7, 971 says this: “After these seven thunders uttered their voices, the injunction comes to John as to Daniel in regard to the little book: ‘Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered.’ These relate to future events which will be disclosed in their order. Daniel shall stand in his lot at the end of the days. John sees the little book unsealed. Then Daniel’s prophecies have their proper place in the first, second, and third angels’ messages to be given to the world. The unsealing of the little book was the message in relation to time. “The books of Daniel and the Revelation are one. One is a prophecy, the other a revelation; one a book sealed, the other a book opened. John heard the mysteries which the thunders uttered, but he was commanded not to write them.

“The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels’ messages. It was not best for the people to know these things, for their faith must necessarily be tested. In the order of God most wonderful and advanced truths would be proclaimed. The first and second angels’ messages were to be proclaimed, but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work. This is represented by the angel standing with one foot on the sea, proclaiming with a most solemn oath that time should be no longer.”

In Revelation 10:1-3 Christ, the mighty angel comes down out of Heaven with the little book of Daniel open in His hand. He puts one foot on the land and one foot on the sea and then in verse 3 cries as a lion cries, and when he does, then seven thunders uttered their voice. John was about to write what the seven thunders uttered, but then he is told to write them not, to seal them up.

Whatever the seven thunders represent, they there were sealed up. Sister White tells us that the seven thunders represent two things. One: “The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels’ messages.” She is saying the seven thunders represent the events that took place from 1798 to 1844, because that’s the history of the first and second angels’ messages. Two: “After the seven thunders uttered their voices, the injunction comes to John as to Daniel in regard to the little book: ‘Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered.’ These relate to future events which will be disclosed in their order.” She tells us, the seven thunders represent not only the Millerite history from 1798 to 1844, but also the history of the 144,000 at the end of the world.

In here she specifically compares the sealing up of the seven thunders as a parallel to the sealing up of the book of Daniel. And it was, when the book of Daniel was unsealed in 1798, that the increase of knowledge produced the experience of the Millerites. When she compares the sealing up of the seven thunders to the sealing up of the book of Daniel, she also compares the seven thunders to the history of the Millerites and the history at the end of the world, when the Millerite history is repeated. She is saying: At the end of the world, when the Millerite history is repeated, the seven thunders will be unsealed and it will parallel the unsealing of the book of Daniel for the Millerites.

In Revelation 22:11 it says: “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still…” As Seventh-day Adventists we know that this verse is identifying the close of probation. In the verse right before verse 11, verse 10, it says: “And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.” Just before human probation closes, there comes a pronouncement that the time is at hand to unseal the prophecy in the book of Revelation that’s been sealed up. The prophecy in the book of Revelation that’s been sealed up (Revelation 10:4) is the seven thunders.

In several sacred histories the word of God has been sealed up to that generation. The Old Testament had been sealed up to the Jews. When Sister White comments on these times, when the Bible has been sealed up to men, she tells us what seals up those truths. We’ll read a couple of those. This is from Spalding and Magan, 58: “When Christ came to this earth, the traditions that had been handed down from generation to generation, and the human interpretation of the Scriptures, hid from men the truth as it is in Jesus. The truth was buried beneath a mass of tradition. The spiritual import of the sacred volumes was lost… But the Lion of the tribe of Judah prevailed. He opened the seal that closed the book of divine instruction.” One more quote, Signs of the Times, May 17, 1905: “The scribes and Pharisees professed to explain the Scriptures, but they explained them in accordance with their own ideas and traditions. Their customs and maxims became more and more exacting. In its spiritual sense, the sacred Word became to the people as a sealed book closed to their comprehension.”

Let’s try to get back into your question about why this pioneer perception of the trumpets has been lost. If you look at the 1843 pioneer chart in the lower right hand corner, you see two horses with warriors on them. The horse on the top represents the fifth trumpet, Islam. The horse below it represents Islam of the sixth trumpet. The pioneers had a very distinct and accurate understanding of the trumpets of Revelation. When Sister White says “this chart was directed by the hand of the Lord and should not be altered”, this is one of nine specific quotes where she endorses the pioneer understanding of the trumpets. For instance, any Seventh-day Adventist that has read The Great Controversy, knows that she speaks about Josiah Litch’s prediction of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (The Great Controversy, 334). In The Great Controversy she says that when the Ottoman Empire collapsed, “The event exactly fulfilled the prediction.” That prediction was based upon the time prophecy in the sixth trumpet. When she is endorsing that understanding, she is endorsing the pioneer understanding of the trumpets.

Today the modern theologians of Adventism reject the pioneer understanding of the trumpets. The question is why at-casinos.com? Well, the seven thunders were sealed up, and Sister White says the seven thunders represent the events that took place between 1798 and 1844. In other words, the history of the Millerites has been sealed up! But how was it sealed up? How was it that we no longer understand what the Millerites believed about prophecy? We just read how. Sister White tells us that at the different points in history, when biblical truth is sealed up to God’s people, it’s from the reception of “customs and traditions, that are handed down from generation to generation.”

Let me give you an example. Consider the book Thoughts on Daniel and Revelation by Uriah Smith. There are some conclusions that Smith makes in there that I don’t agree with and I can explain why I think he missed on those couple of places, but in his book Smith defends Miller’s position on the daily. And in this book

Smith endorses the pioneer understanding of the trumpets. In the early part of the 20th century, when the German leader Louis Conradi introduced the incorrect view of the daily, a few men accepted it from Conradi and began to push that we should accept the new view of the daily. Suddenly there was an argument about the daily. If you read when Sister White was speaking of that argument you’ll find several places where she says: “They wanted to change the books”, or sometimes when she was dealing with the men who wanted to change the books, she said, “Leave the books alone.” The book they want to change was Thoughts on Daniel and Revelation by Uriah Smith. They wanted to go into this book and remove Miller’s understanding of the daily and replace it with Conradi’s.

Most people in Adventism don’t have this book any more. Adventists in the United States usually have all the Spirit of Prophecy books, or many of them. They may never read them, but they have a lot of them in their book cases. This book is becoming more archaic, out of place, unacceptable, yet Sister White says every Seventh-day Adventist should own this book. She doesn’t say it that way. She says: “We should be giving this book out to our neighbors.” How can we give it to our neighbors if we don’t own it? But you know what she calls this book? “God’s helping hand” (Publishing Ministry, 356). The book endorses the pioneer position on the trumpets and daily. The reason that we no longer accept the pioneer position on the daily, or the trumpets, or the 2520 is, because those truths were established in the Millerite history from 1798 to 1844. But the history of 1798 to 1844 is represented as the seven thunders and the seven thunders were sealed up. This means we don’t understand them because we have received customs and traditions, which have been handed down from generation to generation. Praise the Lord, just before the close of probation, the book that’s sealed and the book of Revelation are going to be unsealed. Then the Lord is going to lead His people back to the foundations of Adventism and reacquaint them with these foundational truths.

We have your magazine entitled Time of the End and have spent much time reading it. We feel we’ve learned a lot from it and have also passed some along to others who feel they have also gained new insight from it.

Now we have a question? We have been given a copy of the enclosed book, [The Secret Terrorists] which we find very interesting. Our radio station (Adventist owned) is giving a copy to all who request it. We wonder if you would have time to read it and advise if you think it is believable? We feel it is a eye opener but do not want to go off in a wrong direction. We have prayed about this and feel impressed to ask you. We appreciate your tapes.

Response

I have had several send me a copy of the book titled, The Secret Terrorists, by Bill Hughes, and ask for my evaluation. At the same time that I read the book, I also received three audio presentations by Bill Hughes that cover the material in the book. I appreciated the book more than the audio presentations. From my personal studies a great deal of the information in the book is just as I understand them, although there are a few areas where I am personally undecided. I do believe that the information in the book is something that would be beneficial for Adventists to understand. Sister White teaches:

“The Bible is its own expositor. Scripture is to be compared with scripture. The student should learn to view the Word as a whole and to see the relation of its parts. He should gain a knowledge of its grand central theme, of God’s original purpose for the world, of the rise of the great controversy, and of the work of redemption. He should understand the nature of the two principles that are contending for supremacy and should learn to trace their working through the records of history and prophecy, to the great consummation. He should see how this controversy enters into every phase of human experience; how in every act of life he himself reveals the one or the other of the two antagonistic motives; and how, whether he will or not, he is even now deciding upon which side of the controversy he will be found.” Mind, Character, and Personality, vol. 1, 346.

The information in the book is part of this very “history” that we are counseled to understand, yet with that been said—I do not believe that the message in the book is “the message for the hour”. The book provides background information, but is not the primary theme of the third angel’s message. Please note though, that I would not even comment on the book, had I not been asked by many to do so. I have no personal burden about the book one way or another.

A while back you helped us with some questions that my husband had. I appreciate that. Now he has some more questions. I guess you are aware that Samuel Bacchiocchi has put out a theory that the Islam people will join hands with the Catholics and come together. What do you think? Did Sister White ever say anything about this? What do think their part will be in all of this? Next question! Since everybody seems to be so against President Bush and this Iraq war, how will this man be the one to get the whole world to follow the US with the coming Sunday law. I voted for Bush because I felt like he would bring the law in and we would be closer to the Coming of our Lord. His father plays such a role in the New World Order.

Response

We are told that all apostate powers will unite to oppose God and His people:

“‘These have one mind.’ There will be a universal bond of union, one great harmony, a confederacy of Satan’s forces. ‘And shall give their power and strength unto the beast.’ Thus is manifested the same arbitrary, oppressive power against religious liberty, freedom to worship God according to the dictates of conscience, as was manifested by the papacy, when in the past it persecuted those who dared to refuse to conform with the religious rites and ceremonies of Romanists.”

“In the warfare to be waged in the last days there will be united, in opposition to God’s people, all the corrupt powers that have apostatized from allegiance to the law of Jehovah.” Selected Messages, book 3, 393.

This being stated, the sequence of events leading to this world unification includes the Moslems as a prophetic catalyst to bring the world into political agreement prior to the persecution of God’s people.

The ultimate effect of the terrorism of the Moslem extremists is to provide the reasoning and justification for a one-world government. This I believe is the inspired pronouncement upon the descendents of Ishmael:

“And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.” Genesis 16:10–12.

There are many factors that prophecy identifies that contribute to the Sunday law in the US and the current history that President Bush is fulfilling fits with it all. Iraq is part of the Moslem world and therefore fulfills the purpose of uniting “every man’s hand”. Also the “temporal prosperity” of the USA is swept away before the Sunday law. Consider the cost of the current war on terrorism, and then look to Wall Street as it spirals down. Notice also the Religious Right in the US fulfilling its role as the “false prophet” as it begins to identify who and what are the causes of the current problems while seeking political support for action against the troublers of the people by the government of the USA. (First the Palestinians and Iraq, but ultimately Seventh day Adventists.) It is not the responsibility of George Bush to accomplish these things, for he is simply a ruler subject to God’s divine providence.

If I had a concern about your note, it would be on the concept of voting for a man we thought would bring on the final events. The inspired commentary on this subject is that we are to do everything to hold back these final evil times.

“We as a people have not accomplished the work which God has committed to us. We are not ready for the issue to which the enforcement of the Sunday law will bring us. It is our duty, as we see the signs of approaching peril, to arouse to action. Let none sit in calm expectation of the evil, comforting themselves with the belief that this work must go on because prophecy has foretold it, and that the Lord will shelter His people. We are not doing the will of God if we sit in quietude, doing nothing to preserve liberty of conscience. Fervent, effectual prayer should be ascending to heaven that this calamity may be deferred until we can accomplish the work which has so long been neglected. Let there be most earnest prayer, and then let us work in harmony with our prayers. It may appear that Satan is triumphant and that truth is overborne with falsehood and error; the people over whom God has spread His shield, and the country which has been an asylum for the conscience-oppressed servants of God and defenders of His truth, may be placed in jeopardy. But God would have us recall His dealings with His people in the past to save them from their enemies. He has always chosen extremities, when there seemed no possible chance for deliverance from Satan’s workings, for the manifestation of His power. Man’s necessity is God’s opportunity. It may be that a respite may yet be granted for God’s people to awake and let their light shine. If the presence of ten righteous persons would have saved the wicked cities of the plain, is it not possible that God will yet, in answer to the prayers of His people, hold in check the workings of those who are making void His law? Shall we not humble our hearts greatly before God, flee to the mercy seat, and plead with Him to reveal His mighty power?” Testimonies, vol. 5, 714.

I could add that I believe that when it comes to politics we have a responsibility to uphold a defense for religious liberty, but there are few if any other issues in the political sphere that God’s people should be involved with. As I view things, (from my human perspective) it does not appear that God’s people are ready what is beginning to take place. I believe our efforts are to work to prolong the time as much as possible, so that we can wake up, prepare and sound the warning for others.

A while back you helped us with some questions that my husband had. I appreciate that. Now he has some more questions. I guess you are aware that Samuel Bacchiocchi has put out a theory that the Islam people will join hands with the Catholics and come together. What do you think? Did Sister White ever say anything about this? What do think their part will be in all of this? Next question! Since everybody seems to be so against President Bush and this Iraq war, how will this man be the one to get the whole world to follow the US with the coming Sunday law. I voted for Bush because I felt like he would bring the law in and we would be closer to the Coming of our Lord. His father plays such a role in the New World Order.

Response

We are told that all apostate powers will unite to oppose God and His people:

“‘These have one mind.’ There will be a universal bond of union, one great harmony, a confederacy of Satan’s forces. ‘And shall give their power and strength unto the beast.’ Thus is manifested the same arbitrary, oppressive power against religious liberty, freedom to worship God according to the dictates of conscience, as was manifested by the papacy, when in the past it persecuted those who dared to refuse to conform with the religious rites and ceremonies of Romanists.”

“In the warfare to be waged in the last days there will be united, in opposition to God’s people, all the corrupt powers that have apostatized from allegiance to the law of Jehovah.” Selected Messages, book 3, 393.

This being stated, the sequence of events leading to this world unification includes the Moslems as a prophetic catalyst to bring the world into political agreement prior to the persecution of God’s people.

The ultimate effect of the terrorism of the Moslem extremists is to provide the reasoning and justification for a one-world government. This I believe is the inspired pronouncement upon the descendants of Ishmael:

“And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.” Genesis 16:10–12.

There are many factors that prophecy identifies that contribute to the Sunday law in the US and the current history that President Bush is fulfilling fits with it all. Iraq is part of the Moslem world and therefore fulfills the purpose of uniting “every man’s hand”. Also the “temporal prosperity” of the USA is swept away before the Sunday law. Consider the cost of the current war on terrorism, and then look to Wall Street as it spirals down. Notice also the Religious Right in the US fulfilling its role as the “false prophet” as it begins to identify who and what are the causes of the current problems while seeking political support for action against the troublers of the people by the government of the USA. (First the Palestinians and Iraq, but ultimately Seventh day Adventists.) It is not the responsibility of George Bush to accomplish these things, for he is simply a ruler subject to God’s divine providence.

If I had a concern about your note, it would be on the concept of voting for a man we thought would bring on the final events. The inspired commentary on this subject is that we are to do everything to hold back these final evil times.

“We as a people have not accomplished the work which God has committed to us. We are not ready for the issue to which the enforcement of the Sunday law will bring us. It is our duty, as we see the signs of approaching peril, to arouse to action. Let none sit in calm expectation of the evil, comforting themselves with the belief that this work must go on because prophecy has foretold it, and that the Lord will shelter His people. We are not doing the will of God if we sit in quietude, doing nothing to preserve liberty of conscience. Fervent, effectual prayer should be ascending to heaven that this calamity may be deferred until we can accomplish the work which has so long been neglected. Let there be most earnest prayer, and then let us work in harmony with our prayers. It may appear that Satan is triumphant and that truth is overborne with falsehood and error; the people over whom God has spread His shield, and the country which has been an asylum for the conscience-oppressed servants of God and defenders of His truth, may be placed in jeopardy. But God would have us recall His dealings with His people in the past to save them from their enemies. He has always chosen extremities, when there seemed no possible chance for deliverance from Satan’s workings, for the manifestation of His power. Man’s necessity is God’s opportunity. It may be that a respite may yet be granted for God’s people to awake and let their light shine. If the presence of ten righteous persons would have saved the wicked cities of the plain, is it not possible that God will yet, in answer to the prayers of His people, hold in check the workings of those who are making void His law? Shall we not humble our hearts greatly before God, flee to the mercy seat, and plead with Him to reveal His mighty power?” Testimonies, vol. 5, 714.

I could add that I believe that when it comes to politics we have a responsibility to uphold a defense for religious liberty, but there are few if any other issues in the political sphere that God’s people should be involved with. As I view things, (from my human perspective) it does not appear that God’s people are ready what is beginning to take place. I believe our efforts are to work to prolong the time as much as possible, so that we can wake up, prepare and sound the warning for others. Jeff.

Dear Jeff,

Thank you for your ministry. We are unable to tell you how you have strengthened our faith in the message. In Sabbath school adult class, Dr. N said that we, as a denomination, are ashamed of 1844. We told the world Jesus was coming then, and He didn’t, and we are ashamed of our early error. In the context of Jonah, that immediately let me see why we do not hear Revelation 9:15 preached: we are ashamed that what we predicted didn’t happen.

I had the opportunity to teach several weeks ago and I word-searched the CD for Jonah. I found 122 references, read them all and wrote a short reminder of the applications Spirit of Prophecy made of the Jonah story. It was amazing how many real-life situations she found were worthy of a mention in that respect, and the most important was that our people can find strength in realizing that the Bible prophecies were correct, the calculations of time were correct, and the fulfillment took place on time. It was only our failure to identify the correct fulfillment, which was at fault.

Uriah Smith and others recognized that “an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year” were not the mundane way to identify a future date, and applied the year-day principle. Miller did not focus on this prophecy for intense study, and it was left to Josiah Litch to pin down the historical date (August 11, 1840) and publish it. Desmond Ford criticized his work, saying that Litch had not included the adjustment to the Gregorian calendar in fixing the date. I have not pursued Ford’s criticism but it seems correct.

Regardless, the histories I consulted (encyclopedias and the few histories of Turkey available in the Paradise, CA library) did not even mention 1840 as a significant date. As I wrote to you then, I was sure the prophecy was true, that the biblical date was correct, that I thought the problem was that Litch and Smith were looking at a political fall of Turkey but that the fall was rather a religious one. I now can refine what I think.

Islam was in shambles in 1840. A couple of centuries earlier the Saracens were the major worry of the European kingdoms, and Smith says that in 1830 the Four Powers of Europe were sure that unless Turkey was kept as a weak power in the Mideast, Russia and Western Europe would have to meet in war over the hegemony of the Balkan states (Hungary, Romania, Greece, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Moldavia, Poland, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Montenegro—have I left any out?). So the Four Powers set about supporting Turkey to postpone the trouble to our day.

Turkey had come into world prominence in mid-fifteenth-century by confederating the various Moslem powers to war against Europe. Earlier Moslem incursions across northern Africa, high into Gaul, and through the Balkans; these had all been individual victorious armies, not coordinated in their assault on Christendom. But now Othman with his warring Turks had gained such military prominence that all Islam coordinated their efforts to destroy Christianity.

Muhammad died in the sixth century. The religion he had founded looked for a new prophet but none developed, and the leadership fell to Muhammad’s widow. He had married a widow with a son, and that son, (who was not of Muhammad’s blood line), had become the hope of Moslems. But Mohammad’s uncle, Abu Bekr, had inherited the military power, and his son, Ali, was another contender for leadership. That contention remains today: the Sunni Moslems look to the widow’s line for spiritual guidance; the Shi’a Moslems look to Ali’s line. It’s similar to the Catholic question, can the pope be other than Italian? The religious leader of Islam has the title, Caliph (ka-leef’). In 1840 there were four Caliphs: Mecca, Constantinople, Aleppo, Damascus. None had the authority to dominate the others and carry leadership against the Christians, and the military center was in Turkey. Eighty years later the leadership of Islam was no longer in Turkey, but in Mecca, in the Saud family. In our generation we have seen the decline of the Sauds and the rise of the Imams of Iran.

I believe the “fall of Turkey” of Uriah Smith was the decline from power of the Turkish Caliph and the rise of the Sauds. I’m not sure enough of any of this to publish. What did you find out in London? I got started on this when I read a book by A. T. Jones, Great Nations of Today. If you haven’t seen it, it’s probably worth acquiring. Your friend in Christ, CT.

Response

Brother CT,

My work in the library in London was cut short because of a holiday that closed the library the following day. I had only one day to look. What I found though was the evidence that, what is recorded by Uriah Smith and others, such as James White—is accurate. It is similar to your conclusions above, but it includes the understanding of the pioneers as well. That understanding being that the Turkish power surrendered its sovereignty to the European powers on August 11, 1840. It wasn’t simply a change of spiritual power. Jeff.

Hello Jeff,

I wanted to shoot this email to you while it was somewhat fresh in this mind. Something that you shared either with me or in my presence and something that JS said at the 2007 prophecy school caused me to need to clarify. I’m not exactly certain as to how you represented it, but you were tying Islam to four winds of strife that were to blow. I do not see any correlation to the four angels of Revelation seven and wondered what I might have misunderstood. Forgive the intrusion but I need to just clarify. God bless you friend! WS.

Response

Brother WS,

I will identify the prophetic points where Islam as the third woe and the winds of strife can be defended. It is when you bring these points together, line upon line, that you develop the complete picture of Islam in Bible prophecy.

1. The Ancient People—In connection with Christ portraying the end from the beginning, He identifies that He appointed the ancient people to illustrate the end of the world.

Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them show unto them. Isaiah 44:6, 7.

1. The Prophecy of Islam—Prophecy identifies Islam’s role as an ancient people at the end of the world in Genesis 16:12 as a people that “will be against every man”.

And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. Genesis 16:1012.

1. Islam as a subject of Prophecy—The pioneers of Adventism identify Islam as the subject of the first and second woe. Sister White endorses the pioneer understanding of Islam as the first and second woe at least nine different times.
2. The Pioneer Understanding of Islam—The pioneers illustrated Islam with a warhorse on both the 1843 and 1850 charts.

“I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.” Early Writings, 74.

“I saw that God was in the publishment of the chart by Brother Nichols. I saw that there was a prophecy of this chart in the Bible, and if this chart is designed for God’s people, if it [is] sufficient for one it is for another, and if one needed a new chart painted on a larger scale, all need it just as much.” Manuscript Releases, volume 13, 359.

1. Troublous Times—As the great reformatory movements parallel and prefigure Adventism at the end of the world, the waymark of the fourth angel parallels the history of the building of the walls and streets by Nehemiah. Nehemiah’s work was accomplished in “troublous times”. Islam represents the troublous times in the history of the fourth angel and as such, is also represented as the angering of the nations of the third woe found in Revelation 11:18, as well as the distress of nations of Luke 21:25. The “troublous times” are a subject of prophecy, and Islam’s role is to produce these troublous times that occur during the sealing of the 144,000.
2. Revelation Nine’s Symbol of Islam— Islam is represented as a warhorse that brings warfare against the armies of Rome in the first and second woe of Revelation nine. The pioneers symbolically represent Islam as war horses on both the 1843 and 1850 charts.

And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle. Revelation 9:7.

1. The Winds of Strife—Sister White identifies the winds of strife as an angry horse, in spite of no identification of a horse in Revelation 7:1–3. The angry horse bears death and destruction, and this truth is set forth in connection with the sealing of God’s people in the last days.

“Angels are holding the four winds, represented as an angry horse seeking to break loose and rush over the face of the whole earth, bearing destruction and death in its path.

“Shall we sleep on the very verge of the eternal world? Shall we be dull and cold and dead? Oh, that we might have in our churches the Spirit and breath of God breathed into His people, that they might stand upon their feet and live. We need to see that the way is narrow, and the gate strait. But as we pass through the strait gate, its wideness is without limit.

“We need now to arise and shine, for our light has come, and the glory of the Lord has risen upon us. We have no time to talk of self, no time to become like the sensitive plant, that cannot be touched without shrinking. In Jesus Christ is our sufficiency. Will we talk faith? Will we talk of the glorious hope, of the full and abundant righteousness of Jesus Christ, provided for every soul? I tell you in the name of the Lord God of Israel that all injurious, discouraging influences are held in control by unseen angel hands, until every one that works in the fear and love of God is sealed in his forehead.” Manuscript Releases, volume 20, 216–217. 8.

1. The Restraining of the Winds of Strife— “‘The commencement of that time of trouble,’ here mentioned does not refer to the time when the plagues shall begin to be poured out, but to a short period just before they are poured out, while Christ is in the sanctuary. At that time, while the work of salvation is closing, trouble will be coming on the earth, and the nations will be angry, yet held in check so as not to prevent the work of the third angel. At that time the ‘latter rain,’ or refreshing from the presence of the Lord, will come, to give power to the loud voice of the third angel, and prepare the saints to stand in the period when the seven last plagues shall be poured out.” Supplement to Early Writings, 85.

At the time when “latter rain” or “refreshing” comes “to give power to the loud cry of the third angel”, “trouble” or the angering of “the nations” will “be coming on the earth”. “Yet” at that time the angry nations will be “held in check” so as to “not prevent the work of the third angel”.

The time of the latter rain is also the time of the angering of the nations. It has been prefigured by the troublous times of Nehemiah. Yet that period of time begins when the angry nations are restrained. The restraining of the angry nations occurs at the very time when the winds of strife are restrained, marking the beginning of the sealing time of the 144,000. The sealing of the 144,000 is the “work of the third angel” which takes place when “the work of salvation is closing”.

“Especially in the closing work for the church, in the sealing time of the one hundred and forty-four thousand, who are to stand without fault before the throne of God, will they feel most deeply the wrongs of God’s professed people.” Review and Herald, June 8, 1886.

The prophetic starting point of the sealing of the 144,000 is marked by the restraining of the winds of strife and the angry nations. This starting point also marks when the latter rain begins to sprinkle. During the sprinkling of the latter rain the wheat and tares of Adventism are still together.

“Unless we are daily advancing in the exemplification of the active Christian virtues, we shall not recognize the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain. It may be falling on hearts all around us, but we shall not discern or receive it.” Testimonies to Ministers, 507.

One function of the latter rain is to revive God’s people. This fact identifies that the latter rain begins to fall when both the wise and foolish virgins of Adventism are sleeping.

“As the third message swells to a loud cry, and as great power and glory attend the closing work, the faithful people of God will partake of that glory. It is the latter rain which revives and strengthens them to pass through the time of trouble. Their faces will shine with the glory of that light which attends the third angel.” Testimonies, volume 1, 353.

“Revival signifies a renew al of spiritual life, a quickening of the powers of mind and heart , a resurrection from spiritual death.” Selected Messages, book 1, 128.

If we wait to be revived until the Sunday law, we will be lost!

The latter rain revives us, therefore identifying that the latter rain must first awaken the believer from “spiritual death”. The restraining of the winds of strife marks the beginning of the sealing of the 144,000. It marks the beginning of the closing work of the third angel. The loud cry of the third angel is accomplished when the angel of Revelation eighteen joins the third angel. Sister White compares the history of the loud cry of the third angel with both the history of the Millerites and Pentecost.

“The angel who unites in the proclamation of the third angel’s message is to lighten the whole earth with his glory. A work of world-wide extent and unwonted power is here foretold. The Advent movement of 1840-44 was a glorious manifestation of the power of God; the first angel’s message was carried to every missionary station in the world, and in some countries there was the greatest religious interest which has been witnessed in any land since the Reformation of the sixteenth century; but these are to be far exceeded by the mighty movement under the last warning of the third angel.

“The work will be similar to that of the day of Pentecost.” The Great Controversy, 611.

The outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the history of Pentecost began with a sprinkling that preceded the full outpouring on the day of Pentecost.

“The act of Christ in breathing upon his disciples the Holy Ghost, and in imparting his peace to them, was as a few drops before the plentiful shower to be given on the day of Pentecost.” The Spirit of Prophecy, volume 3, 242.

“Before He left His disciples, Christ “breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” John 20:22. Again He said, “Behold, I send the promise of My Father upon you.” Luke 24:49. But not until after the ascension was the gift received in its fullness. Not until through faith and prayer the disciples had surrendered themselves fully for His working was the outpouring of the Spirit received. Then in a special sense the goods of heaven were committed to the followers of Christ.” Christ’s Object Lessons, 328.

The sprinkling of the latter rain begins before the Sunday law. At the Sunday law the church will be purified, for then the wheat and the tares are separated and then the Holy Spirit will be poured out without measure. When the closing work of the third angel begins the winds of strife and the angry nations are restrained, thus marking the time when the latter rain begins to sprinkle and the sealing of the 144,000 begins.

1. The Restraining of Islam—Islam of the second woe was restrained on August 11, 1840 by the four great European powers. The prophecy in Revelation 9:14, 15 that identifies the restraining of Islam in 1840 lasted for a day month hour and year, or 391 years 15 days. In the prophecy there were four angels prepared to bring warfare during that time-period against the armies of Rome. Those four angels of Islam were released on July 27, 1449 and on August 11, 1840 those four angels of Islam were restrained.
2. The Millerite History is Repeated—Recognizing that he Millerite history is repeated identifies that it was a prophetic message from one of the woe trumpets that was used by the Lord to empower the first angel’s message in 1840. It is reasonable then to expect that a prophetic message from a woe trumpet will empower God’s people at the end of time when the Millerite history is repeated.

Sister White identifies 1840–1844 as a history that prefigures the sealing time of the 144,000 and that has also been prefigured by the history of Pentecost in The Great Controversy, 611. The history of 1840–1844 is a type of the sealing time of the 144,000 just as the history of Pentecost is a type of the sealing of the 144,000. The Millerite history that prefigures the sealing of the 144,000 began when Islam was restrained.

The empowerment of the Millerites was accomplished when the four great European powers came together to decide the fate of Islam. On September 11, 2001 he entire world (and the number four represents worldwide in Bible prophecy) came together to decide the fate of Islam. When the four European powers dealt with Islam in 1840 they restrained Islam, and since September 11, 2001 the world has placed a restraint upon Islam.

1. Daniel 11:40—Daniel 11:40 contains a prophetic history that parallels the history of Revelation 9:1–3 where a long drawn out war between Persia and Rome is identified as the key that allowed Islam to rise into history. The long drawn out war between the king of the north and the king of the south in verse forty parallels that history, and when the Soviet Union was brought down in 1989, the key that allows modern Islam to return into prophetic history had been turned. In Revelation 9:1–3 we see the information concerning the key, and then in the next verse (verse four) we see a reference to the sealing of God’s people. Just as the collapse of the Soviet Union in fulfillment of verse forty was the key for modern Islam to return into prophetic history the following verse identifies the Sunday law in the USA when the seal is demonstrated.

And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. Revelation 9:4.

He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. Daniel 11:41.

1. A Triple Application of Prophecy— The three woes are governed by the principle of a triple application of prophecy. That rule points out that when a prophecy is repeated three times, the first two fulfillments will establish the characteristics of the third fulfillment.

The first woe identified Islam bringing warfare against the armies of Rome. The Islam of that history was located in Arabia and was only to hurt the armies of Rome. Islam’s mode of warfare was to strike suddenly and unexpectedly. The history covered by the first woe is identified as the first great jihad by Islam.

The second woe identified Islam bringing warfare against the armies of Rome. The Islam of that history was located in Turkey and was to kill the armies of Rome. Islam’s mode of warfare was to strike suddenly and unexpectedly, but with added feature of explosives in that history. The history covered by the second woe is identified as the second great jihad by modern Islam.

Therefore: The third woe will be modern Islam bringing warfare against the armies of Rome. At the end of the world the armies of Rome are the armies of the United States. The Islam of this history will be worldwide and will first hurt the United States producing the social and political environment to bring about a Sunday law in the United States and then it will continue to escalate its warfare until the United States is thrown into the lake of fire. After the long drawn out war between papal Rome and spiritual Persia illustrated in Daniel 11:40 is accomplished in 1989 the key will have been turned that allows Islam to return into prophetic history again, and when it does its warfare will be to strike suddenly and unexpectedly with explosives, against the United States. This event took place on September 11, 2001 and modern Islam identifies that since that time they were now in the third great jihad.

Immediately after September 11, 2001 the president of the United States went to the United Nations and identified that the world was now in a world-wide war with Islam, and at that time a restraint has been placed upon Islam.

1. Power, Seat and Great Authority— Christ portrays the end of a thing from the beginning of a thing. In Revelation 13:2 we are told that pagan Rome gave three things to the papacy. Pagan Rome gave its military power to the papacy starting with Clovis in 496 and continuing on through the Dark Ages. Pagan Rome gave its seat to the papacy when Constantine moved the capital of the Empire from the city of Rome unto Constantinople in the year 330. And pagan Rome gave its civil authority to the papacy in 533, when Justinian identified the pope of Rome as the corrector of heretics and the head of the churches. Pagan Rome gave three things to the papacy and removed three things for the papacy. It removed the Heruli, Ostrogoths and Vandals. The United States will accomplish this very work for the modern papacy. It will use its military and economic power to remove the king of the south, the glorious land and Egypt as identified in Daniel 11:40–43. It began to submit its military power to the papacy in the Reagan years when it formed a secret alliance to bring down the Soviet Union in 1989. It gave its moral “seat” of authority to the papacy in a two step process. The first step was when the churches of the USA closed their doors against the first angel’s message in 1842. Inspiration tells us that at this point the USA suffered a moral fall, but that the fall is progressive. The political arm of the USA had to submit to the moral authority of Rome as well, and this happened in the Reagan years when the secret alliance was formed.

The Bible asks the question:

Can two walk together, except they be agreed. Amos 3:3.

The other action that still remains is for the civil authority of the world to be given to the papacy. This is fulfilled in Revelation 17:

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. Verses 12, 13, 17.

To understand why the world civil authority of the ten kings is given to the papacy only requires that we understand why and how the civil authority was given to the papacy in the beginning, for God identifies the end of a thing with the beginning of a thing. What caused Justinian to identify the pope as the corrector of heretics was that his kingdom was being destroyed by the war trumpets of Revelation eight. There was also a religious argument taking place in the empire. Was the church in Rome or Constantinople the pre-eminent Christian church? In the midst of this crisis Justinian wrote his decree and gave the pope the authority to identify even Justinian himself as a heretic, thus surrendering the civil authority to the pope of Rome.

In fulfillment of their role in Bible prophecy, Islam is going to bring about an escalating crisis of warfare that will bring the world to its knees. First it prepares the way for the Sunday law in the USA and then the USA insists to the world that the only way that the problem of radical Islam can be resolved is for the entire world to brought under subjection of the United Nations, but to secure the deal—the pope of Rome will agree to sit as the moral authority of this three-fold union. Islam is the issue that provides the prophetic logic for the world-wide image of the beast to be forced upon the world.

Once all these prophetic characteristic of Islam are identified it is very simple to pull them all together and identify that on September 11, 2001 the third woe arrived in history—marking the starting point for the sealing of the 144,000. Hope this helps in your studies. Jeff.

Dear Jeff,

The study of prophecy is very intriguing. Having spent enough time and note-taking to become generally confused, I go back to abiding in Christ and then back to prophecy again. I see that time is shorter than we think.

I have some questions about September 11, 2001 being the beginning of the 3^rd woe:

Question 1

Does the information we now have on the 3^rd woe enhance the following statement by James White:

“The third woe is by reason of the voice of the seventh angel… The seven plagues are poured out under the sounding of that angel, hence the plagues are future, and constitute the third woe”. Life Incidents connection with the Great Advent Movement, page 261?

With the information we now have that James did not have, could it be that by the principle of the ‘triple application of prophecy’, Islam’s rise to terror is the beginning of the third woe?

Question 2

But how do the woes fit with Daniel 11:41? If verse 40 is about 1989, then verse 41 cannot be about 1841 or 1833. (You can tell that my notes have confused me and my brain is not retentive.)

Question 3

Then again, does Isaiah 11:14 have any relational application with Daniel 11:41 or Revelation 11:15-19?

Too many mysteries for one day. I am sure you have covered these things in some of your materials. If the material is available I will be glad to purchase a CD or two.

Thank you for your dedication to God’s Word. May you always be faithful. JH.

Response

Dear JH,

Answer to Question 1

If James White was suggesting that the third woe is the plagues (and I believe he is), then he is mistaken. I have no problem identifying that the third woe begins a crisis that continues to escalate up to, and during the seven last plagues; the arrival of the plagues simply adds to the escalating crisis. We point out when dealing with this subject, that there was a time when Joseph Bates wrote an article identifying that all the events of Revelation 11:18 occurred simultaneously.

“And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.” Revelation 11:18.

After Elder Bates penned the article, Sister White wrote a statement in 1849 in response to it:

“I saw that the anger of the nations, the wrath of God, and the time to judge the dead were separate and distinct, one following the other, also that Michael had not stood up, and that the time of trouble, such as never was, had not yet commenced. The nations are now getting angry, but when our High Priest has finished His work in the sanctuary, He will stand up, put on the garments of vengeance, and then the seven last plagues will be poured out.” Early Writings, 36.

Here we are clearly told that the angering of the nations takes place before the wrath of God, and that the wrath of God is the seven last plagues.

Verse 18 identifies the third woe by the phrase: “the nations were angry” (please bear in mind that the third woe is not the seventh trumpet, but is an aspect of it). So from this, I understand that the work of Islam is to anger the nations, in fulfillment of the third woe; and that this is to take place before the wrath of God – the seven last plagues.

In verse 14 the second woe has concluded:

“The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.” Revelation 11:14.

And from verse 15 onward we see the progression of history under the seventh angel: from the beginning of the sounding of the trumpet on October 22, 1844 until the end of the Great Controversy.

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

“-And the nations were angry, “-and thy wrath is come,

“-and the time of the dead, that they should be judged,

“-and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. ” Revelation 11:15-18.

Verses 15 through 17 identify the beginning of the judgment when Christ came to receive His kingdom, then verse 18 identifies the angering of the nations; thus marking the troublous times of prophecy that transpire when God’s people are being sealed. Then human probation closes.

Answer to Question 2

Daniel 11:40 is the history from 1798 until the Sunday law. In 1989 the “king of the south” (the former Soviet Union) was swept away by the “king of the north” (the Papacy) and its ally the United States. The history of this verse continues until verse 41 which identifies the Sunday law in the United States.

This war between the Papacy and the Soviet Union in verse 40 is a parallel history to the war between Pagan Rome and the two-fold power of Persia that was correctly identified by the pioneers as the “key” of Revelation 9:1; that when turned, opened the bottomless pit and brought Islam of the first woe into history. The collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989 marked the conclusion of the long waged war that began in 1798, between Papal Rome and the two-fold power of France (remember that the “king of the south” in verse 40, although maintaining the same spiritual characteristics, changed geopolitically from atheistic France to the communistic Soviet Union). At the conclusion of this war, the key had been turned that allowed modern Islam of the third woe to arrive in history; thus September 11, 2001 is also part of the historical narrative of verse 40.

Verse 41 describes the Sunday law in the United States. On August 11, 1840 the first angel’s message was empowered by the fulfillment of the 391 year 15 day time prophecy of the second woe that is set forth in Revelation 9:14, 15. Take note that it is a woe trumpet that empowered the Millerite message in 1840, and that the Millerite history is to be repeated here at the end of the world; therefore we should expect to see a woe trumpet empower the message of the 144,000, which it did on September 11, 2001, when modern Islam was restrained by the world.

As we have already pointed out, modern Islam of the third woe arrived in history on September 11, 2001 after the conclusion of the war in 1989; in fulfilment of the repeat of the first woe. But we also see that a restraint was put on modern Islam on September 11 2001, when the message was empowered, in fulfilment of the repeat of the second woe.

Once the message was empowered in 1840 it was to go to the whole world, and it was to test the world. However the test was progressive; it first tested the Protestants of the United States before it went to the rest of the world. The Protestants were tested in 1841 paralleling the test of the Sunday law in verse 41, and by the June of 1842, according to Sister White, the different denominations, with few exceptions closed their doors to the Millerite message.

“In June, 1842, Mr. Miller gave his second course of lectures in Portland. I felt it a great privilege to attend these lectures, for I had fallen under discouragements and did not feel prepared to meet my Saviour. This second course created much more excitement in the city than the first. With few exceptions the different denominations closed the doors of their churches against Mr. Miller.” Testimonies, volume 1, 21.

We refer to the year 1833 in connection with William Miller formalizing the message for that generation. All great reformatory movements are the same and one waymark of each of these histories is the development of the message for that particular generation. Moses, Noah, Elijah, Cyrus, John the Baptist were each used to formalize a message for their particular reformation history and in 1833 the Lord used Miller to formalize the first angel’s message.

Answer to Question 3

Isaiah 11:14 represents the eleventh-hour workers who come out of Babylon during the loud cry message as Edom, Moab and Ammon:

“But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.” Isaiah 11:14.

These three tribes are also employed by Daniel in verse 41 for the same symbol – the one-hour laborers. It is in verse 41 – at the Sunday Law in the United States – that the loud cry message to come out of Babylon begins; and “Edom, and Moab and the chief of the children of Ammon” represent the one-hour laborers who respond to that message.

In verse 41, Daniel uses the word “chief ” but in verse 14, Isaiah does not; there is a reason for this. The word “chief ” in the original means ‘first fruits’; thus Daniel is identifying that the ‘first’ of God’s “other sheep” that are outside of Adventism “come out of her” [Babylon] at the Sunday Law; whereas Isaiah is identifying the ‘last’ of those one-hour laborers to “come out of her” just before probation closes. Sorry it has taken so long for me to respond. Hope this enhances your studies. Jeff.

Let’s consider this quote to start with: “Now comes the word that I have declared that New York is to be swept away by a tidal wave. This I have never said. I have said, as I looked at the great buildings going up there, story after story: ‘What terrible scenes will take place when the Lord shall arise to shake terribly the earth! Then the words of Revelation 18:1–3 will be fulfilled.’ The whole of the eighteenth chapter of Revelation is a warning of what is coming on the earth. But I have no light in particular in regard to what is coming on New York, only I know that one day the great buildings there will be thrown down by the turning and overturning of God’s power. From the light given me, I know that destruction is in the world. One word from the Lord, one touch of His mighty power, and these massive structures will fall. Scenes will take place the fearfulness of which we cannot imagine.” The Review and Herald, July 5, 1906.

On September 11, 2001 the “great buildings” of New York City came down. Sister White plainly says that when this takes place Revelation 18:1-3 is fulfilled. Revelation 18:1 speaks about a mighty angel coming down out of heaven and the earth was lightened with its glory. Sister White says that the three angels of Revelation 8 and 14 are to be repeated. The pioneers taught that the first angel of Revelation 14 began in 1798, but that the first angel’s message was empowered when the mighty angel of Revelation 10 came down.

The pioneers correctly taught that the first angel of Revelation 14 and the angel that comes down in Revelation 10 are the same angel. When the angel of Revelation 18 came down on September 11, 2001, the history of the first angel’s message was repeated. Sister White says the three angels’ messages were to be repeated (The Review and Herald, October 31, 1899). As Seventh-day Adventists we know that when the angel of Revelation 18 descends and joins with the third angel’s message, the latter rain begins to fall. That is standard understanding in Adventism. What Adventism doesn’t understand is that before the Holy Spirit is poured out without measure at the Sunday law in the United States, it first begins to sprinkle upon God’s people.

At the Sunday law in the United States the church is purified. One group of Adventism receives the mark of the beast and the other receives the seal of God. At that point, the Holy Spirit is poured out without measure upon those who have the seal of God. Then the two classes in Adventism have been separated. One class receives the mark of the beast and strong delusion, one the seal of God and the full outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Inspiration teaches that before that time period, while the wheat and tares are still together, before they are separated, the latter rain begins to fall. You can see this in Testimonies to Ministers, 507: “Unless we are daily advancing in the exemplification of the active Christian virtues, we shall not recognize the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain. It may be falling on hearts all around us, but we shall not discern or receive it.”

September 11, 2001 when the mighty angel of Revelation 18 descended, when the great buildings of New York City were thrown down, one of the things that happened is that the fourth angel had joined the third. The other thing is, that the latter rain began to sprinkle upon Adventists. Some Adventists receive it, some don’t. The Holy Spirit is now being poured out with measure. When Adventism is separated at the Sunday law, then it’s poured out without measure. On September 11, 2001 the third woe arrived in history.

There is a multitude of verses in the Bible that teach upon the testimony of two or three, a thing is established (1 Corinthians 13:1; Matthew 16:16). The fifth trumpet was the first woe; the sixth trumpet was the second woe. The pioneer understanding is that the first woe was Islam and the second woe was Islam. Upon a testimony of two, a thing is established. If the first woe was Islam and the second woe was Islam then the third woe is Islam. On September 11, 2001, the third woe arrived in history. It began when the mighty buildings of New York City were thrown down. At this point the work of the Holy Spirit is to arouse and to awaken Seventh-day Adventists. When we are awakened we have the opportunity to enter into the finishing of the work of sanctification, that we might receive the seal of God. A careful study of the Holy Spirit demonstrates that the latter rain first awakens us and gives us opportunity to prepare. Prepare for the Sunday law, because at the Sunday law our probation closes. The Bible teaches: “Surely the Lord our God will do nothing, accept he will reveal it through his servants the prophets.” Amos 3:7. God’s character demands that before He closes the probation upon His people He will warn them through the prophetic word. September 11, 2001 is that warning!

Brother Jeff,

When we were in Delano, you mentioned that the children of the east were represented in the time period of Christ. I saw the following in the first chapter of The Great Controversy:

“For seven years a man continued to go up and down the streets of Jerusalem, declaring the woes that were to come upon the city. By day and by night he chanted the wild dirge: ‘A voice from the east! a voice from the west! a voice from the four winds! a voice against Jerusalem and against the temple! a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides! a voice against the whole people!’” The Great Controversy, 30.

What did you mean that the children of the east were represented in the time of Christ and does that relate to the four winds here? Brother LO.

Response

Brother LO,

The wise men were from the east and they were directed to the baby Jesus by the star that was the fulfillment of Balaam’s prophecy. This is two witnesses (Balaam’s prophecy, and the wise men from the ‘east’) that Islam is represented at the birth of Christ.

The story they are set within also emphasizes a ‘sign’ for it was the star in the east that was the sign for the wise men to follow. Islam marks the arrival of the latter rain, which is the sign that the wise men are to follow today as well as then.

The two references to Islam (Balaam and the east) identify the beginning of the nation of Israel, for Balaam becomes part of the story just as ancient Israel is to enter the Promised Land, and the wise men enter the story of Christ to provide the monies necessary for Christ to go into Egypt in order that he might typify the beginning of ancient Israel when they crossed the Red Sea. Both references are in connection with a bondage and deliverance that are both marked by either the waters of the Red Sea or the waters of Jordon. As Joseph was carried to safety by the Ishmaelite traders at the beginning of Israel’s captivity, so it is the wise men from the east that provide the means to safety for Christ. In any case, there is more to say about Islam in the history of Christ, but I hope you see the logic.

Islam is marked in prophecy when it is restrained, such as Sister White identifies when she marks the “angry horse” as the four winds of strife.

“Angels are holding the four winds, which are represented as an angry horse seeking to break loose and rush over the face of the whole earth, bearing destruction and death in its path.” Manuscript Releases, volume 20, 217.

The horse family symbolically represents Islam, whether the wild Arabian ass of Genesis 16:12 or the war-horses of Revelation nine. When Christ was to go to the cross, He sent His disciples to untie and bring the donkey that He was to enter Jerusalem on.

And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples, Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an ass tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them. All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass. And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. Matthew 21:1–7.

The ass and her colt which were restrained were a sign, and the whole scene is based upon God’s prophetic word. Christ comes to Jerusalem during the judgment of the living riding upon the message of the ass. Jeff.

Hi Jeff,

I have really appreciated the material the Lord has led you to put together. I ran across this statement that makes it appear that the trumpets sound after the close of probation. What do you think of this? GC.

“Evil angels unite their powers with evil men, and as they have been in constant conflict and attained an experience in the best modes of deception and battle, and have been strengthening for centuries, they will not yield the last great final contest without a desperate struggle. All the world will be on one side or the other of the question. The battle of Armageddon will be fought, and that day must find none of us sleeping. Wide-awake we must be, as wise virgins having oil in our vessels with our lamps. What is this? Grace, Grace.

“The power of the Holy Ghost must be upon us, and the Captain of the Lord’s host will stand at the head of the angels of heaven to direct the battle. Solemn events before us are yet to transpire. Trumpet after trumpet is to be sounded, vial after vial poured out one after another upon the inhabitants of the earth.” The 1888 Materials, 762.

Response

Brother GC,

This is a common statement to those who wish to apply the trumpets after the close of probation, but there are trumpets that are sounded that are not the seven trumpets of Revelation 8 and 9. There is no specific context to apply this to the trumpets of Revelation 8 and 9, so you would need to deny the several places where Sister White endorsed the pioneer understanding of the trumpets in order to make this single statement hold up. It just doesn’t fit. Her endorsement of Litch’s prediction in The Great Controversy is an endorsement of the understanding of the trumpets by the pioneers. You cannot logically separate the pioneer understanding of the trumpets from the time prophecy in Revelation 9:15. If they were incorrect on the trumpets, then they would also be incorrect on what or who to apply the time prophecy to. You would also need to address William Foy’s vision in 1842, where he was told that the sixth trumpet had not yet done sounding. Jeff.

Brother GC Replies

Thank you Brother Jeff,

I concur with your answer and just wanted to know how you handle this quote. Certainly the time prophecies of the pioneers are almost indisputable for their interpretation of the 7 trumpets—first 4, nomadic nations against Western Rome, and the last 2 trumpets—Islam against Eastern Rome. GC.

Response

Brother GC,

One other further thought: The trumpets were representing seven parts of an unfolding history that began after Constantine divided the Roman Empire into East and West, when in the year 330—he moved the capital of the Empire from the city of Rome in the West, unto the city of Constantinople in the East. All seven trumpets had specific sequential histories which they were representing. In spite of that fact, the message of the trumpets is also identifying the opening up of information unto God’s people by the Lion of the tribe of Judah. Yes, the trumpets represent specific histories, but the prophetic histories represented by the trumpets are also the truths which the Millerites came to understand in the books of Daniel and Revelation and that the Millerites developed and established as the foundations of Adventism.

The trumpets cover the history of the disintegration of the Roman Empire, basically after the year 330. The history continues until the end of the world. It is the history represented by the trumpets, which the book of Daniel also addresses. This is the prophetic history that fulfilled the unsealing of the book of Daniel in that time. The history represented by the trumpets covers and adds understanding to the years 476, 496, 508, 533, 538, 1299, 1449, 1798, 1840, 1843 and 1844. These dates and their associated prophetic history is what the Millerites presented up until 1844. Not only was the histories represented by the seven trumpets the foundational prophetic history of the Millerite message, but God brought the Millerites into revival by the fulfillment of prophecy located in the message of the trumpets. The Millerite history is to be repeated in the history when the 144,000 are developed. Therefore: It is reasonable to expect that prophetic light will once again be brought from the trumpets that accomplishes or at least contributes to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, when God brings about the revival of the latter rain.

In both the past history of the Millerites and the current history of the development of the 144,000—the messages of the trumpets are used to bring revival. Prophetically, this fact places the trumpets within a history that precedes the close of probation, for the revival of the Millerites preceded October 22, 1844 and the revival of the 144,000 precedes the Sunday law testing period. The trumpets are therefore representing a history when probation is still open, whether considering the Millerite time-period or today. They are not then understood to be paralleling the seven last plagues, for the seven last plagues are representing the history after human probation closes. Most who wish to reject the pioneer position on the trumpets align their ‘new’ understanding of the trumpets with the seven last plagues. One of these histories is representing a time when probation is open, and one a time when probation is closed—therefore; the two histories represented by the trumpets and the plagues are not the same prophetic history. Jeff.

Hi Jeff,

I do the web site, www.webelievesda.org. I get lots of spam and sometimes someone that is real. This guy responded to PN’s article titled: A Test on Advent History. His name is RH and I responded back. I wanted to know if I responded correctly. Thanks, Glenn.

Hi PN,

I noticed on your website that you speak of Litch’s prediction regarding the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1840. Have you tried to reconcile this prediction with evidence from historical sources? I understand that the Convention of London occurred around that date, but historians today essentially show the fall of the Ottoman Empire occurred around 81 years after the predicted date. God bless. RH

Hi RH,

Mrs. White said that the event perfectly fulfilled the prediction. So if you don’t believe it then Mrs. White is a false prophet. I choose to believe her! God Bless, Glenn

Hi Glenn,

I think I understand your position: you believe Ellen White, yet simple logic dictates that, since the fall of the Ottoman Empire is a historical event, it should be easy to confirm the date using independent sources. Else anyone can claim anything; much like Harold Camping did last year. I will shortly post a quote from Ellen white on her view about herself as a historian. RH

Dear RH,

Some years back, a friend of mine was in England, and went to a large public library. His purpose was to see if there were any newspapers or anything dating back to the 1840’s and the Ottoman Empire. He told the librarian what he was looking for and she found it actually quite fast! He saw with his own eyes that yes, it was as our pioneers reported it, as well as Uriah Smith. Think about it brother. How could this not happen and be the catalyst that let the world see that the Adventists of the day had the year-day principle correct? This one event empowered the movement. The Catholic Church has for years been removing history from libraries making it harder to research the past. But we have a prophet that does not lie. She said the event perfectly fulfilled the prediction. Case closed brother! Glenn.

Thanks Glenn,

But not so easy brother. You’re referring to the Morning Chronicle, a London newspaper. Don’t forget that the historians have also had access to these newspapers. They are after all public sources. Yet, they have failed to concur with Litch’s position. As is clear from the archives of history, the Empire fell about 80 years later. Here are some well-known dates around the Empire at the time:

1. In June 1840, the entire Ottoman navy defected.
2. The Convention of London was signed on 15 July 1840.
3. In September 1840, the European powers eventually moved from diplomatic means to military action.
4. After the Royal Navy and the Austrian Navy first blockaded the Nile delta coastline, they moved east to shell Sidon and Beirut on 11 September 1840.
5. France switched sides and aligned against Muhammad Ali in October 1840.
6. Muhammad Ali finally accepted the terms of the Convention on 27 November 1840.
7. When on August 11, 1840, the Ottoman Empire accepted guarantees from the Great Powers, it was interpreted as a fulfillment of Bible prophecy and Litch’s interpretation thereof.
8. Litch slowly abandoned the historicist view of prophecy, in favor of futurism. He attended the Prophetic Conference held at the Church of Holy Trinity, in New York City, Oct. 30–Nov. 1, 1878.
9. Finally, it is worth being aware of EGW’s own view, for what it’s worth, of her take on history: Regarding Mother’s writings, she has never wished our brethren to treat them as authority on history. When Great Controversy was first written, she often times gave a partial description of some scene presented to her, and when Sister Davis made inquiry regarding time and place, Mother referred her to what was already written in the books of Elder Smith and in secular histories. Letter from W.C. White to S.N. Haskell, circa 1912. RH.

Brother RH,

If you want to re-write history that is your choice. If I cannot believe a simple statement that Mrs. White made when she said, the event perfectly fulfilled the prediction then what do I have to stand on? May I ask you then, what is the second woe? What was the first woe?

Where it says in your link, “Mother never thought that the readers would take it as an authority on historical dates…” I have to tell myself that this is not the prophet speaking. Mrs. White was fully capable to tell us exactly what she wanted to say. God was at liberty to tell us through her what He wanted and He did. Today, people quote James White as if he were inspired because he was married to the prophet. Does not work for me. Glenn.

Dear RH,

I have thought all day today about what you have written. I will not quote SOP as I am sure you are well versed. There are many ways to document that the event, as it was predicted, empowered the Millerite Movement in 1840. This empowerment happened because the world at large witnessed the fulfillment of a prediction. They, those outside of the movement, verified themselves that Josiah Litch actually hit pay dirt to the day. This showed the validity of the year-day principle. If you cannot verify this today, it makes no difference. The fact of the matter is that hundreds and thousands of people outside this movement were able to see, of their own accord, this prediction fulfilled. All that has been written on this subject could not have been written about something that did not really happen! You are wrong. You have woven together a series of statements that are false. I have received the kind of factual evidence that you say does not exist. I doubt it would change your view of this topic. As Jesus said they will not believe even if someone rises from the dead. The angels restrained Islam or the Mohammedan’s in 1840.

You talk about simple logic. Again, just because you claim that you cannot confirm this historical event is no conclusion that it did not happen. The numbers are against you. The evidence is not with you.

In your statement of Ellen’s own view you are not quoting her! You are quoting hear-say. The Great Controversy is a book we hold up as highly accurate, brother. Let me ask you a question. Are you a Seventh-day Adventist? Or do you pretend to be one in here? A real Member of the Remnant church is just like the beginning. He or she believes what the pioneers believed and taught. Do you? Glenn.

Hi Glenn,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. Please have a close look at the link: http://www.whiteestate.org/vault/Haskell.html.

In particular, see: http://www.whiteestate.org/vault/EGW_Approval.jpg. Your prophet has indeed spoken in this case. I shall bother you no more. God Bless, RH

Response 

Brother Glenn,

I agree with your points, but your problem is allowing RH to frame the discussion. By framing the discussion he places a perspective upon history that exceeds what is demanded of and by the prophecy. You are also allowing him to teach error without countering him upon it, so he begins to establish a falsehood as truth based upon repetition.

His claim about prophecy is incorrect when he says, “Have you tried to reconcile this prediction with evidence from historical sources. I understand that the Convention of London occurred around that date, but historians today essentially show that fall of the Ottoman Empire occurred around 81 years after the predicted date,” and again, “simple logic dictates that, since the fall of the Ottoman Empire is a historical event, it should be easy to confirm the date using independent sources. Else anyone can claim anything; much like Harold Camping did last year. I will shortly post a quote from Ellen White on her view about herself as a historian.”

The issue in her statement in The Great Controversy is about inspiration, not history. Inspiration always overrides history. If there is no history to uphold inspiration, then the historical evidence has not yet been recognized. In reconciling her endorsement of Josiah Litch’s prediction of Revelation 9:14-15 we must include the multitude of times that she emphasizes that “we have no new message,” and, that “we are to make the messages of 1840 to 1844 forcible now,” and that, “the messages we received in 1841, 1842, and 1843 are to now be studied and proclaimed.” There are several (not a few) places where she upholds this fact in many different ways.

Therefore to try and undermine her statement in The Great Controversy concerning Litch’s prediction by historical evidence is misdirection. Seems to me that you are dealing with someone employing the “art of debate” and therefore should not make assumptions about his honesty or not, for to employ the “art of debate” in connection with the study of God’s word is to place the human above the divine.

The brother knowingly or unknowingly is employing the technique of “framing the discussion.” Twice he states that there is no historical evidence in support of 1840. This is patently false. It’s false and every time he makes that claim you should oppose it for it is not true and your silence provides an assumption for anyone that might read your dialogue that you are a little willing to consider the idea that there is no historical evidence available to uphold the prophetic claim of 1840. There is plenty of history to uphold that claim, but not only does he claim there is none, you by your silence assent to the fact.

But he is also simultaneously misdirecting the subject in one other way. His is insisting that his definition of the fall of the Ottoman Empire is the definition that has been marked by God’s prophetic word as the fulfillment of that prophecy. He defines what history is to mark the end of the prophecy.

The prophecy began when the last Emperor of Eastern Rome in Constantinople died and the heir apparent for his throne was so intimidated by the four great sultans that then existed in his supposed kingdom, that before accepting the vacated throne he first asked permission of those four sultans. This is the history that marks the beginning of the prophecy and therefore this is the history that defines what the fulfillment of that prophecy will be. Therefore we are not looking for what the historians might define as the fall of the Ottoman Empire, but we are looking for the point in time when the Ottoman Empire surrendered its sovereignty into the hands of four powers. This history was fulfilled on August 11, 1840 and there is abundant evidence to this fact.

So this brother uses misdirection in terms of framing the discussion in an incorrect fashion that then allows him to insist you prove the points that he raises, which are not the points that have been identified by inspiration as the points of history that would take place in the fulfillment of the prophecy. As he is doing this he then employs another technique of debate when he then undermines your credibility by associating you with a known false interpreter of prophecy. After this he seeks to undermine the prophecy by interjecting that even Litch abandoned his prophetic interpretation. This also has nothing to do with the validity of August 11, 1840 as the fulfillment of Revelation 9:14-15, but it does demonstrate that this person is throwing any handful of mud in hopes that some of it will stick to the wall.

Of course, when I respond so directly to the brethren offering these types of weak and unfounded prophetic arguments, then I generally get confronted with my un-Christlike character for being so direct. So if you had been this direct with the guy he may have already delivered the “guilt card” to you, by emphasizing your unwillingness to hear a brother out over their genuine understanding of whatever subject they wish to discuss. But even that argument does not square with the fact that we have been told not to spend time in long discussion concerning prophecies that have already been made plain. If this guy wants to argue with what Sister White so clearly and repeatedly endorses, then you are in rebellion for continuing on in a discussion with him.

“The Lord wishes all to understand his providential dealings now, just now, in the time in which we live. There must be no long discussions, no presenting of new theories in regard to prophecies that God has already made plain. The great work from which the mind should not be diverted is the consideration of our personal standing in the sight of God. Are our feet on the Rock of Ages? Are we hiding ourselves in the only Refuge? The storm is coming, relentless in its fury. Are we prepared to meet it? Are we one with Christ as he is one with the Father? Are we heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ? Are we working in co-partnership with the Saviour?” Review and Herald, November 27, 1900.

I am pretty sure B.C. has the historical data on August 11, 1840 at his fingertips if you do not. I am going to also forward this to Sister PN. Jeff.

I am not sure that I could ever understand why people don’t understand these verses. In Daniel 12:1 Michael stands up. And Daniel 12:1 begins by saying: “And at that time“, identifying, that Michael stands up somewhere in the history of the previous verses. We understand that when Michael stands up, human probation closes. The verses that lead up to Daniel 12:1, when Michael stands up, are verses 40 to 45. In verse 40 it begins by saying: “And at the time of the end.” Sister White says in The Great Controversy, 356 that the time of the end is 1798. So, I have understood that verses 40 to 45 are the prophetic events that lead to the close of probation.
In The Great Controversy, 594 Sister White says: “The events connected with the close of probation and the work of preparation for the time of trouble, are clearly presented. But multitudes have no more understanding of these important truths than if they had never been revealed. Satan watches to catch away every impression that would make them wise unto salvation, and the time of trouble will find them unready.” Inspiration tells us, the events that lead to the close of probation have been clearly revealed. The clearest revelation of the close of probation is Daniel 12:1 when Daniel stands up. So, the last six verses of Daniel 11, according to inspiration, have been clearly revealed. She says, these events are important truths and Satan is there to try to prevent people from understanding these truths by catching away every thought that might make them understand these verses and because of that, people aren’t going to be ready when probation closes. When she is commenting on those that don’t understand these verses, these events, she does not say: but few do not understand these verses, she says: “multitudes.” The majority of Adventism does not understand these verses and it is salvational. If you don’t understand the events that lead to the close of probation you are going to be found unready when human probation closes. Inspiration is clear, that we will understand these things.
The Review and Herald, April 4, 1893: “The events of the future will be discerned by prophecy, and will be understood.” If you are a Seventh-day Adventist and you’ve been a Seventh-day Adventist very long then you’ve watched our evangelistic series. You know when we are doing evangelism, we will tell the non-Adventists about Daniel 2. Everyone agrees about Daniel 2. Then we’ll teach them Daniel 7. Then we’ll teach them Daniel 8. Daniel 8 is a little bit harder, because we’ve got to deal with the sanctuary. But, we don’t teach them about Daniel 11. We jump over right into Revelation. We avoid Daniel’s last vision like a plague. Sister White says: “The events that lead to the close of probation have been clearly revealed” and these events are what make us wise unto salvation. Sister White and the Bible teach that history is repeated at the end. Sister White says more than once, that every generation has special testing truths for that generation.
In Bible history which illustrates the end of the world, as Jesus illustrates the end from the beginning, every time we investigate the special truths for that particular generation, we find a majority of the people reject the message. How many people got on the ark? How many people got out of Sodom and Gomorrah? How many of the people received Jesus when He was here on earth? How many people received the message of Miller? So, the only way I can understand why the majority of Adventism doesn’t know anything at all about the last six verses of Daniel 11 is, because Sister White says these events, in these verses that lead to the close of probation, are what make us wise unto salvation. These verses are the message for this generation, and like every other time in sacred history, when a special testing message comes to God’s people, the majority of God’s people find any excuse that’s convenient to not understand that message. That’s how I understand it.

Brother BC,

The “tidings out of the east and out of the north” (Daniel 11:44) represents the third angel’s message.

Point One – Here a little, there a little

Isaiah 41 identifies Christ as the righteous one that comes from the east and the north: “Who raised up the righteous man from the east, called him to his foot, gave the nations before him, and made him rule over kings? he gave them as the dust to his sword, and as driven stubble to his bow… I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as upon morter, and as the potter treadeth clay Isaiah 41:2, 25.

Therefore east and north represent Christ’s righteousness.

Similarly Revelation 7 shows the sealing angel ascending from the east:

“And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea.” Revelation 7:2.

Therefore, “east” represents the sealing message.

Also Mathew 24 and Sister White both tell us that Christ’s second coming is associated with the east:

“For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” Matthew 24:27.

“Soon there appears in the east a small black cloud, about half the size of a man’s hand. It is the cloud which surrounds the Saviour… The people of God know this to be the sign of the Son of man.” The Great Controversy, p.640.

Therefore, “east” represents the message of Christ’s second coming.

Lastly, Jeremiah 1 & 4, and Ezekiel 9 both describe how God’s punishment or judgment upon Israel comes from the north:

“Then the LORD said unto me, Out of the north an evil shall break forth upon all the inhabitants of the land.” Jeremiah 1:14. “Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.” Jeremiah 4:6. “And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer’s inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.” Ezekiel 9:2.

Therefore, “north” represents the judgment message.

So the message of Christ’s righteousness; the sealing; the second coming; and the judgment are all represented in Daniel 11:44 by the phrase “tidings out of the east and out of the north”. All these terms: judgment; the second coming; sealing; and Christ’s righteousness, are used by Sister White in connection with the third angel’s message.

Point Two – The Sequence

Daniel 11 – The last six verses of Chapter 11 begin with verse 40 in 1798 the “time of the end”, when the deadly wound is inflicted. Verses 40 & 41 then go on to tell how the deadly wound begins to be healed by the conquering of the first two obstacles – the “king of the south” (the Soviet Union), and the “glorious land” (the USA). By verses 42 & 43, the king of the north has conquered the third and final obstacle – “Egypt” (the World); and the deadly wound is completely healed. Then in verse 44, we see the message of the hour – the third angel’s message.

Revelation 13 – Sister White says:

“The time during which the papal power was to oppress God’s people… terminated in 1798. At that time… the papal power received its deadly wound… At this point another symbol is introduced. Says the prophet: ‘I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb.’” The Great Controversy, 439.

“At the time when the Papacy, robbed of its strength, was forced to desist from persecution, John beheld a new power coming up to echo the dragon’s voice, and carry forward the same cruel and blasphemous work. This power, the last that is to wage war against the church and the law of God, is represented by a beast with lamblike horns. The beasts preceding it had risen from the sea; but this came up out of the earth, representing the peaceful rise of the nation which it symbolized the United States.” Signs of the Times, February 8, 1910.

Therefore we know that John is taken to 1798 to receive the vision of Revelation 13. For we are told that this is the “time the papal power received its deadly wound” or “the time when the Papacy was robbed of its strength”. Revelation 13 then goes on to tell how the deadly wound is healed; as the image to the beast is formed (the USA), followed by the Worldwide enforcement of the mark of the beast. This is followed by Revelation 14, which identifies the three angel’s messages.

Revelation 13 & 14 is the identical structure and the same story as Daniel 11:40-45. Daniel 11 is telling the story from the perspective of the Papacy – “the king of the north”; and Revelation 13 is telling the same story but emphasizing the role of the USA – “the false prophet”.

Revelation 17 – In Revelation 17, John is carried into the “wilderness” (verse 3) to receive his vision. Revelation 12:6, 14 identify the “wilderness” time period as the 1,260 years of Papal rule. However, Revelation 17, not only tells us that John was carried to the “wilderness” time period (the 1,260 years of Papal rule), it specifies at what point in time he was taken there. Verse 4 tells us that when John saw the woman, she was already “the mother of harlots” – marking the fact that some of the Protestant churches had already returned to Rome; and verse 5 tells us that she was already “drunken with the blood of the saints” – identifying that the persecution had already taken place. In other words, Revelation 17 also begins in 1798; the chapter then goes on to tell how the deadly wound is healed; as she rides the sixth head (the USA), followed by the seventh (the UN one-world government). Once chapter 17 tells that story, we come to chapter 18, which emphasizes the message of the hour – the loud cry of the third angel’s message.

All three passages (Daniel 11:40–45, Revelation 13, 14 & 17, 18) begin in 1798, then tell how the Papacy returns to power, and then emphasize the message of the third angel. Revelation 17 emphasizes the role of the dragon power the ten kings, Revelation 13 emphasizes the role of the false prophet the USA, and Daniel 11 emphasizes the role of the beast the king of the north, the Papacy. Hope this helps. Jeff.

BC Replies

Brother Jeff,

The real question is: “are the tidings of verse 44 the message of Jones and Waggoner?” As I present the prophecy school DVD’s, some are saying, “I hear what he is saying. There is a lot of prophecy, but where is the Love of God?” I reply, “Isn’t God showing His love by revealing himself through prophecy?” What is your response? BC.

Response

Brother BC,

Many of God’s people are under the misapprehension that the message of Jones and Waggoner was a complete revelation of the light of the loud cry of the third angel. However Sister White informs us that their message was just the beginning of that light. It was not all the light – it was the beginning of the light. If there is a beginning, then there must be more that follows:

“Let every one who claims to believe that the Lord is soon coming, search the Scriptures as never before; for Satan is determined to try every device possible to keep souls in darkness, and blind the mind to the perils of the times in which we are living. Let every believer take up his Bible with earnest prayer, that he may be enlightened by the Holy Spirit as to what is truth, that he may know more of God and of Jesus Christ whom He has sent. Search for the truth as for hidden treasures, and disappoint the enemy.

“The time of test is just upon us, for the loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer. This is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth. For it is the work of every one to whom the message of warning has come, to lift up Jesus, to present Him to the world as revealed in types, as shadowed in symbols, as manifested in the revelations of the prophets, as unveiled in the lessons given to His disciples and in the wonderful miracles wrought for the sons of men. Search the Scriptures; for they are they that testify of Him.

“If you would stand through the time of trouble, you must know Christ, and appropriate the gift of His righteousness, which He imputes to the repentant sinner.” Selected Message, book 1, 362.

The gospel message that is to be proclaimed is found in the book of Revelation, but that message is portrayed within the context of prophecy.

“John in the Revelation foretells the proclamation of the gospel message just before Christ’s second coming. He beholds an angel flying ‘in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come.’ Revelation 14:6, 7.

“In the prophecy this warning of the judgment, with its connected messages, is followed by the coming of the Son of man in the clouds of heaven. The proclamation of the judgment is an announcement of Christ’s second coming as at hand. And this proclamation is called the everlasting gospel. Thus the preaching of Christ’s second coming, the announcement of its nearness, is shown to be an essential part of the gospel message. “The Bible declares that in the last days men will be absorbed in worldly pursuits, in pleasure and money-getting. They will be blind to eternal realities. Christ says, ‘As the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.’ Matthew 24:37-39.

“So it is today. Men are rushing on in the chase for gain and selfish indulgence as if there were no God, no heaven, and no hereafter. In Noah’s day the warning of the flood was sent to startle men in their wickedness and call them to repentance. So the message of Christ’s soon coming is designed to arouse men from their absorption in worldly things. It is intended to awaken them to a sense of eternal realities, that they may give heed to the invitation to the Lord’s table.

“The gospel invitation is to be given to all the world—‘to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.’ Revelation 14:6. The last message of warning and mercy is to lighten the whole earth with its glory. It is to reach all classes of men, rich and poor, high and low. ‘Go out into the highways and hedges,’ Christ says, ‘and compel them to come in, that My house may be filled.’

“The world is perishing for want of the gospel. There is a famine for the word of God. There are few who preach the word unmixed with human tradition. Though men have the Bible in their hands, they do not receive the blessing that God has placed in it for them. The Lord calls upon His servants to carry His message to the people.

“The word of everlasting life must be given to those who are perishing in their sins.” Christ’s Object Lessons, 227.

We are told that the truths in the book of Revelation are “our lesson for the present time,” and that those truths are “a revelation of the important events that are to take place”:

“Our lesson for the present time is, How may we most clearly comprehend and present the gospel that Christ came in person to present to John on the Isle of Patmos,— the gospel that is termed, ‘The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass. . . . Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein; for the time is at hand.’

“We are to proclaim to the world the great and solemn truths of Revelation. Into the very designs and principles of the church of God these truths are to enter. A benediction is pronounced upon those who pay due regard to this communication. The blessing is promised to encourage a study of this book. We are by no means to become weary of looking into it because of its apparently mystical symbols.

“There should be a closer and more diligent study of this book, more earnest presentation of the truths it contains, truths which concern all who are living in these last days. All who are preparing to meet their Lord should make this book the subject of earnest study and prayer. It is just what its name signifies,—a revelation of the important events that are to take place in the last days of this earth’s history. John, because of his faithful trust in the Word of God and the testimony of Christ, was banished to the Isle of Patmos. But his banishment did not separate him from Christ. The Lord knows all about His faithful servants, who for His sake are lying in prisons and dungeons, or have been banished to lonely islands, and He comforts them in their affliction. Christ visited John in his exile, and opened to him the closing scenes of this world’s history.

“The truths opened to John are of the greatest importance to us, for we are living in the very last days. Soon we shall enter upon the fulfilment of the events which Christ showed John were to take place. As the messengers of the Lord present these solemn truths, they must realize that they are handling subjects of eternal interest, and they should seek for the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that they may speak, not their own words, but the words given them by God.

“The book of Revelation must be opened to the people. Many have been taught that it is a sealed book; but it is sealed to those only who reject light and truth. The truth that it contains must be proclaimed, that people may have an opportunity to prepare for the events which are so soon to take place. The third angel’s message must be presented as the only hope for salvation of a perishing world.

“The perils of the last days are upon us, and in our work we are to warn people of the danger that they are in. Let not the solemn scenes, that prophecy has revealed are soon to take place, be left untouched. If our people were awake, if they realized the nearness of the events portrayed by John, such a reformation would be made in our churches that many more would believe our message. We are God’s messengers, and we have no time to lose, for He calls upon us to watch for souls as they that must give an account. Advance new principles, and crowd in clear-cut truth. It will be as a sword cutting both ways. But do not be too ready to take a controversial attitude. There will be times when we must stand still and see the salvation of the Lord. Present the truth as it is in Jesus. Let Daniel speak, let Revelation speak, and tell what is truth. But whatever phase of the subject is presented, uplift Jesus as the center of all hope, ‘the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.’” Pacific Union Recorder, January 14, 1904.

Jones and Waggoner’s message is the beginning of the loud cry message. The beginning of the message is a revelation of Christ which produces a reformation in the life of someone who truly meets Jesus – this is the starting point. But the loud cry was squelched in that time period, so it did not go beyond the beginning of the message. When the message of the loud cry again begins to sound, there will once again need to be an experience in the lives of believers that begins with a revelation of Christ that starts at the foot of the cross.

Download the December, 2007 newsletter from the website if you haven’t read it yet. That newsletter deals with this argument. Hope this helps. Jeff.

With the parallels that exist in Daniel 11:30-36 and the role of the USA in 11:40-45, one of the interesting points was the parallel of the seven European kings and the USA during the Regan years. Regan was the first US president to change the country’s religion from true Protestantism to Apostate Protestantism (Catholicism with a new name), beginning the US’s role in prophetic history, paralleling the role of Clovis, the first of the pagan European kings to change their country’s religion from paganism to Catholicism, in 496. But, there were seven kings that did the same from 496 to 508, the last of them being England.

When dealing with this subject with others, the seeming inconsistency of there only being four US presidents from that time (Regan years) to the present, brings up two thoughts. First, is the parallel itself lacking a fulfillment? And secondly, if the parallel is indeed true (I believe it is), does that mean we have three more presidents to go, giving us at least 16 years (Bush’s second 4 year term followed by three other presidents and their 4 year terms) before the parallel is completely fulfilled?

When asked these questions a thought popped into my mind. We must deal with the subject of presidents in light of the terms they held office. Regan held 2 terms, Bush Sr. held 1, Clinton held 2, and now Bush Jr. is on his 2nd term in office. Thus reckoning from that point of view the 7 kings (presidents) have now come to complete fulfillment making the parallel PRESENT TRUTH. Let me know what you think! May your name remain, JS.

Response

Brother JS,

Very interesting observation, but for me it is simply that at this point. Perhaps more history will confirm or deny that parallel. I would point out though, that we could have three other presidents in a short period of time, though I am not settling into your position or suggesting a secondary one. Jeff.

The reason Carl Bernstein wrote His Holiness is because he was working for Time magazine during the time period when the Soviet Union collapsed. Daniel 11:40 identifies the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989. So, Carl Bernstein tells us, that every article he has ever written and he likes to write about, is men that have power. Some people like to write about romance, some people like to write about war, but Carl Bernstein likes to write about powerful men. In the time period when the Soviet Union was collapsing, Time magazine hired him to write an article on the collapse of the Soviet Union. His article became the whole focus of the entire magazine. The Time magazine is from February 24, 1992. It is called: How Reagan and the Pope Conspired to Assist Poland‘s Solidarity Movement and Hasten the Demise of Communism. That’s the subtitle. The title of the magazine is Holy Alliance. It describes the secret alliance that was formed between Ronald Reagan, the President of the United States, and the antichrist of Bible prophecy. When Carl Bernstein gathered the information for this article, he gives testimony that he realized he had come across the greatest story that he would ever find ever in his life. So, he began to gather information to write his book, His Holiness. His Time article is what introduced him into this history and led him to write this book. The alliance between the United States and the Vatican took place in the Ronald Reagan years. Ronald Reagan has stated that he is a Protestant Christian. But Sister White has a very provocative quote. She says this: “Those who become confused in their understanding of the Word, who fail to see the meaning of antichrist, will surely place themselves on the side of antichrist.” Bible Commentary, volume 7, 949. Ronald Reagan has left in the historical record that he came to understand that the Soviet Union was the antichrist of Bible prophecy. He was confused. It used to be that every Protestant knew that the Pope of Rome was the antichrist of Bible prophecy. Inspiration says, if you become confused on that subject, you will end up on the side of antichrist. Because of Ronald Reagan’s belief he was willing to form a secret alliance with the Pope of Rome to try to collapse the Soviet Union. When you talk about Carl Bernstein’s article in Time or his book, these aren’t Adventists. Carl Bernstein is not an Adventist; he is a secular Jew. As he gives his historical testimony about the fulfillment of prophecy, you have to relate to his testimony as the very rocks crying out not an Adventist this is the rocks crying out. Luke 19:40; Habakkuk 2:11.
Two years before Carl Bernstein wrote his article in Time magazine, The Holy Alliance, there was a book that came from a Jesuit, Malachi Martin called The Keys of This Blood. This book talks about a three-way struggle to bring in a oneworld government. The three-way struggle was between the United States, the Papacy, and the Soviet Union. The subtitle of the book explains the whole premises of the book. The title is The Keys of This Blood, but the subtitle is The Struggle for World Dominion between Pope John Paul II, Mikhail Gorbachev, and the Capitalist West. This book is identifying the struggle that is specifically identified in Daniel 11:40. This book was published in 1990. Malachi Martin says in a general sense that everyone living in 1990 will be alive when there will be a One World Government implemented.
We probably don’t have to read this, but we will. This is the first paragraph of the book:
“Willing or not, ready or not, we are all involved in an all-out, non-holds-barred, three-way global competition. Most of us are not competitors, however. We are the stakes. For the competition is about who will establish the first one-world system of government that has ever existed in the society of nations…” This book is the rocks crying out. What the book says is that there are three powers that are going to begin a struggle with each other to take control of the earth and to bring in a One World Government. Those three powers are the Soviet Union, the United States and the Papacy. In Daniel 11:40 the Soviet Union is the king of the south, the Papacy is the king of the north, and the United States is the chariots, ships and horsemen. Verse 40 says that at the time of the end, in 1798, the king of the south, atheism, was going to begin a war against the Papacy, the king of the north. As Seventh-day Adventists we know that in 1798 atheistic France delivered the deadly wound to the Papacy. That’s Daniel 11:40. But it continues on in the verse to say, that in time, in a period of time, the king of the north would return and retaliate against atheism, the king of the south. The verse also says, that when the king of the north, the Papacy, retaliates against atheism, the king of the south, when that takes place, that the king of the north, the Papacy, would have the ally of the United States the chariots, ships and horsemen. That is the premise of Carl Bernstein’s work. He demonstrates how in the Ronald Reagan years, Ronald Reagan formed a secret alliance with the antichrist of Bible prophecy for the purpose of sweeping away the king of the south, the Soviet Union. That was fulfilled in 1989. That is the history of Daniel 11:40. The next verse identifies the Sunday law in the United States.

[I will bold face the comments I intend to respond to. Jeff.]

I must take issue with you when you indicate it is the Sunday law that brings about a purification of the church. True, something happens to the church at the time of the Sunday law, but rather than purifying the church, it brings about a separation, separating the wheat from the tares. The purifying of the church must take place before this event for it is a purified people who make spiritual warfare against Babylon (Daniel 11:40) prior to the Sunday law. It is the loud cry message of Revelation 18 given by a purified church that brings the wrath of Babylon upon them.

The purifying process must take place under the early rain so that God can have a purified people whom He can trust with latter rain power. If as you indicate, it is the Sunday law that purifies the church you are strengthening the Laodicean complacency promoting the idea that the church can continue in this condition and when the Sunday law comes we will take our stand and be purified. However, the purifying process or rather the righteousness by faith message is one of overcoming, developing a perfect character by yielding our wills to the Holy Spirit under the early rain experience. When the purified company, symbolically described in Revelation as the 144,000 reach this condition of purification the latter rain will be poured out in full abundance and the earth will be lightened with the glory of God. The result will be the spiritual battle described by the prophets Daniel 11:40, John Revelation 12:17 and Ellen White comments.

“Two great opposing powers are revealed in the last great battle. On one side stands the creator of heaven and earth; all on His side wear His signet. They are obedient to His commands. On the other side stands the prince of darkness with those who have chosen apostasy and rebellion.” The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 7, 982

The prophets use war like terms in depicting how the infuriated apostate world, full of satanic fury, will attempt to annihilate the faithful Sabbath keepers. The last part of verse 40 of Daniel 11 gives an overview of Babylon’s success in conquering and causing the nations to follow her example in transgression. Verses 41 and 42 expand on her success and worldwide influence in uniting together apostate Protestantism, spiritualism and Roman Catholicism. Except for some honest souls, described as Edom, Moab and Ammon, who take their stand and join God’s purified people the whole world stands the side of the great apostate.

The clear message, that now is the time for the purification of the church, must be given. When the Sunday law comes it will be too late for the purifying process of those who now profess the truth and are not sanctified by it. The Sunday law will reveal the difference between the purified and the unpurified in the church so that the honest souls still in Babylon can make the right choice to come out to take their stand with God’s faithful purified people in the very last moments of probationary time. Daniel 12:3 reveals the activity of a purified people with the results as stated above. To bring contemporary nations into this prophecy negates the fact that it is Roman Catholicism, apostate Protestantism and spiritualism that unite together to make a final assault against the God of heaven and His faithful people. Certainly Russia along with the other nations of the world plays their part in these final events. Influenced by the United States the whole world is united under this three-fold union. National ruin for the nations of the world will be the result, but for the purified faithful, everlasting life in glory with Jesus our Savior and Redeemer.

Response

I think you have listened to some of my later presentations where I refer to the purification of God’s Church as taking place at the Sunday law. When this topic is not the primary issue that I am addressing I tend to refer to it in a general sense. If you had heard my series titled The Purification of God’s Church, [and some others] you would recognize that you and I are in agreement. I am very careful to identify that the message of prophecy is telling God’s people that right now is the time to secure a genuine Christian character prepared for the seal of God.

The Sunday law is simply the crisis, which demonstrates what character we have developed prior to that event. The Sunday law is the prophetic dividing line where “corporately” Adventism closes its probation. The corporate structure does not go beyond the Sunday law, for at that point; it will both deny the truth and go out into darkness. Or, if it were faithful, the legal restrictions connected with the actual Sunday law would close down the corporation, for the law would end its ability to have financial transactions.

Although your letter does not specify your entire understanding of the last verses of Daniel eleven, I can tell we disagree. There is a point though that I would agree with you on, though in a slightly different way. I agree that to bring contemporary nations into prophecy is out of place, [unless they are truly identified there]. But the nations I identify in Daniel 11:40, are the United States, the Soviet Union, and Roman Catholicism. These are the same three powers, which Malachi Martin identifies as striving for control of the world in his book, Keys of This Blood. It is the theme of his book. It is also the theme of Daniel 11:40-45. These three powers are not simply contemporary world powers. They are the political aspect of the three powers in Revelation sixteen who make up Modern Babylon the beast, the dragon, and the false prophet. The symbolism in Revelation sixteen is identifying these powers spiritual aspect, as opposed to their political aspect in Daniel eleven. I cover these truths in a series titled The Three Beasts of Revelation 16 and The Final Rise and Fall of the King of the North. These powers are not simply contemporary nations, which I pull out of the air; they are the very powers which are leading the world to Armageddon. This understanding is part of the glue that makes the understanding found in Daniel 11:40-45 so significant, for it ties the books of Daniel and Revelation together.

“In the Revelation all the books of the Bible meet and end. Here is the complement of the book of Daniel. One is a prophecy; the other a revelation. The book that was sealed is not the Revelation, but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel relating to the last days. The angel commanded, ‘But thou, 0 Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end.’” Daniel 12:4. Acts of the Apostles, 585.

Brother Jeff,

I am just really struggling about Daniel 11:30–45 primarily. For the whole entire prophecy from the beginning of the chapter is very consistent with the fact that the king of the north is north of the “glorious land” (Israel) geographically, and the king of the south is south of the “glorious land” geographically.

The thing with France being the king of the south (Atheism) is ok for a spiritual implication I suppose, but France is not in the southern region and it just sort of pops in there out of nowhere within our interpretation and it seems as if we are just trying to squeeze in France in the prophecy to come to Napoleon, 1798, the deadly wound, etc.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just me. I can be very stubborn sometimes but I really desire for this prophecy to make sense. Why does Daniel use the terms king of the north and king of the south if the geographical orientations don’t mean anything?

In Daniel 2, 7, & 8 he didn’t refer to much geographical locations so it gives us freedom to not be confined to geography to identify kings or nations like Daniel 11. In Daniel 7 and 8 we rely primarily on the fact that Daniel is referring to nations that have an impact on literal Israel. When do we jump from “literal” to “spiritual”? That is what confuses me. It just seems sloppy to me right now.

I found this from Jeff Pippenger’s (an Adventist prophecy teacher) book entitled Time of the End http://www.temcat.com/End-Time.htm and thought this might help out to some degree:

“One important point of this story is how the Scriptures identify the kings of the north and south. By comparing recorded history with the testimony of Daniel 11, historians and pioneers discovered that the king of the north was the kingdom which controlled the geographical area of Babylon. They discovered also that the king of the south was the kingdom which controlled the geographical area of Egypt. This principle in Daniel 11 brings together the testimony of Scripture with the record of history. This “geographical key” is the rule which we will apply to Daniel 11:40-45 as we begin to identify who are the kings of the north and south. This historical truth is, no doubt, one of the clues, which the Spirit of Prophecy intended to direct us to at the time when this prophecy was to come to its “complete fulfillment.””

So what am I missing? What “clue” is there in this “geographical key” if the king of the north and king of the south are literally in the North and the South? If this statement is true, then how can we apply France, USSR, United States, etc. to fit into verses 40–45 all of a sudden?

The heart of my question is “Can we be sure that this interpretation is indeed correct?” or “Are we just trying to make what we want the prophecy to mean?” Are there parallels in other prophecies that give us reason to take nations out of geographical context and apply them to prophecy? Yes, I suppose, because Revelation talks about Babylon (the great) Israel, Armageddon, Egypt and Sodom. I only ask myself these questions out of sincerity and not to finger point or criticize anybody for being a false prophet or teaching false teachings. The bottom line is “I just don’t get it” and I want to get it! I need someone to spell it out to me. For the last 4 months or so I have been desperately pleading to God for understanding. I want to be one of the wise to understand and not the wicked who will not understand (Daniel12:10).

Ellen White said, “Let all read and understand the prophecies of this book (concerning Daniel 11), for we are now entering upon the time of trouble spoken of: [Daniel 12:1-4 quoted.]” Manuscript Re- leases, volume 13, 394. Brother B.

Response

Brother B,

The key to understand this truth is based upon our willingness to accept the rule that prophecy that is fulfilled after the cross is to be understood in a spiritual application. It is this rule that allowed “every” Protestant reformer used to identify the pope of Rome as the antichrist of Bible prophecy. This rule was so important to the reformers that the Catholic Church assigned the work of destroying this rule to two of its best theologians during the counter reformation. These two Catholics invented three false rules of prophecy in order to attack and destroy the rule that before the cross prophecy is understood in a literal fulfillment and after the cross it is in a spiritual fulfillment.

Protestants used to understand the importance of the rule and defend it against the three false Catholic rules, but they lost sight of it in the early part of the 20th century. Never-the-less the Millerites and Adventism understood and applied this rule. You will never find Ellen White selecting a passage from the Bible and applying it at the end of the world in a literal fashion—not once.

The fact that you are struggling with this rule is demonstrating that you are unfamiliar with correct application of prophecy. If you were understanding and applying the prophetic principle correctly, you might disagree about the king of the south being atheism and the king of the north being the papacy—but you would never seek to find a literal application to those two entities. To do so is to employ one of those three Catholic erroneous views of prophecy. That rule is commonly called futurism, and it seeks to place literal fulfillments on the prophecies of the end. Jeff.

Brother B Replies

Brother Jeff,

Ok. I’m with ya. And I am familiar with futurism and preterism and other catholic interpretations of prophecy, so I understand what you mean in regard to that. I definitely do not want to fall into any of those camps! Yikes!

So to clarify, basically you are saying that everything “after the cross” or others have told me “after the stoning of Steven and the 70 weeks were determined for the Jews” that prophetic passages moved into a “spiritual” light and not literal.

So in conclusion to this principle, we could say that Daniel 11:23–45 are entirely spiritual? Because verse 22 states that the prince of the covenant would be broken (Jesus dies on the cross) Am I right? Brother B.

Response

Dear Brother B,

Except that you have an internal repeat and enlarge with verse 16 through 30. Verses 16 through 30 are dealing with pagan Rome. If you look at Uriah Smith in Daniel and the Revelation and Haskell’s Daniel the Prophet they point out that at verse 23, I believe, (the league of the Jews), that Daniel repeats the previous history of verses 16 and onward, and enlarges upon it. The rule is that after the cross, you seek a spiritual application to prophecy, but there were some prophecies that extended a little beyond the cross and had a literal fulfillment, such as the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. It is better to express the rule as after the “time-period of the cross”, we look for a spiritual application.

The internal rule in Daniel eleven that identifies the king of the north is that it is the power that controls Babylon. In that time period the historians would call that geographical area Syria, but in terms of Bible prophecy ancient Syria included Babylon. The internal rule in Daniel eleven as to who the king of the south is: It is the power that controls Egypt. Pagan Rome conquered Syria before the cross and became the literal king of the north, but later it also conquered Pergamos. Pergamos is where the Chaldean priests fled to after the fall of Babylon. Pergamos was the new center of spiritual Babylon after Belshazzar’s Babylon fell. That is why Revelation two says that Pergamos is where Satan’s seat is. When pagan Rome conquered Pergamos they gathered up the idols and relics of the Chaldean religion, including the Chaldean priests and took them back to the city of Rome and built a new worship center for the Chaldean priests and the new religion in the Pantheon Temple. It was this custom of pagan Rome that caused the historians to call pagan Rome, “pagan” Rome. Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece were all pagan, but it was Rome that lifted up and exalted paganism. They did so by incorporating all pagan religions that they conquered into their own worship.

In any case spiritual Babylon moved from Babylon, to Pergamos, then to the city of Rome. At that point pagan Rome was not only the literal prophetic king of the north, they also controlled spiritual Babylon, but in the year 330 pagan Rome moved out of the city of Rome and made Constantinople the new capitol of the Empire. In doing so they left the Chaldean religion under the control of the Roman church. Therefore in 330, the Roman church became the controlling power of spiritual Babylon and thus became the king of the north. The papacy is the earthly representative of Satan, and Satan determined to exalt his throne above God’s and also to set in the sides of the north. Satan’s desire is to take God’s throne, representing his civil authority and set upon the sides of the north, which represents God’s spiritual authority. Satan’s desire is to be the king of the north, and he attempts this by using his earthly representative, the papacy to accomplish this.

Verses 16 through 30 tell the history of pagan Rome, and in that history you find the change from literal to spiritual. Spiritual Egypt would also need to be identified, and in Revelation 11:8 it is clear that the atheism of France, during the French Revolution time period is symbolized as spiritual Egypt, the licentiousness of France during the time-period is symbolized by spiritual Sodom.

I am getting ready to leave for three weeks, so I don’t know how much more I can interact at this time. I trust the Lord will guide you into all truth. Jeff.

Dear Brother Jeff,
Our small group of brethren spent this Sabbath listening to your White Salmon messages. One brother in particular (who was not at the Monday night meeting that we had with you) is struggling with your explanation of Moab, Edom and the chief children of Ammon in Daniel 11:41. He does not see the word ‘people’ in the verse i.e. these shall escape from his hand, ‘people’ from Moab, ‘people’ from Edom and ‘people’ from the chief children of Ammon. He sees the wording stating that the complete entities of Moab, Edom & Ammon escape, so he does not see your logic in saying that some people from each of these entities escapes from the Papacy’s hand. Am I making sense?
His other question was regarding your statement that probation closes for SDAs at the Sunday Law. His question is: Are you saying that those who are sealed at the Sunday law will live a sinless life and there is no more forgiveness for them? God’s Blessings to you and your family, KB.
Response
KB,
Testimonies volume 5, page 214 and onward speaks of those who are sealed. I am out of the country right now, so I will paraphrase this passage. She states: “Those who receive the seal of God will not have one spot or stain upon their character. . . It is left with us to remedy the defects of our character. . . When the decree goes forth their characters will remain pure and spotless for eternity.” This brother ’s argument is one of the arguments that is consistently raised against this message. I have heard this question many, many times. I always turn to this passage in Testimonies, (but this is not the only place where this truth is identified). But my answer is this. No, I did not say that, “When the Sunday law arrives, those who receive the seal of God will no longer sin”: Inspiration says that: “their characters will remain pure and spotless for eternity”.
1 Corinthians 14:32 teaches that the prophets all agree with one another, and the next verse states that God is not the author of confusion. 1 Corinthians 10:11 teaches that the prophets were all identifying the end of the world. There are several passages in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy that uphold these two principles.
Once we acknowledge these two principles, then we understand that all histories of the Bible are illustrating the end of the world. Sister White identifies another principle several times, and in one place she states about this principle, “All the books of the Bible meet and come to an end in the book of Revelation.” The book of Revelation is the point of reference for the end of the world.
Therefore, if all the prophets are describing the end of the world, then all the prophet’s testimonies must line up with the end of the world scenario that is set forth in the book of Revelation. In the book of Revelation there are three enemies at the end of the world, i.e. the beast, the papacy; the dragon, the United Nations; the false prophet, the USA.
When the different prophets describe the threefold enemy at the end of the world, they each approach the enemies from a different perspective. In Numbers 22, just before the children of Israel are to enter the Promised Land, (clearly an illustration of the end of the world) there are three enemies: Moab, Balaam and Balak. These are Moses’ illustration of the beast, the dragon and the false prophet. Balak the king, is the ten kings, the civil authority, the dragon power of Revelation 16 and 17. Moab is the papacy and Balaam is the false prophet.
But in Revelation 16 the beast, dragon and false prophet are described as leading the world to Armageddon. In Numbers 22 they are not describing that aspect of modern Babylon. In Numbers 22 the three enemies are describing how modern Babylon infiltrates and attacks modern Israel, the Seventh-day Adventist church, just before the end of time. These are two lines of prophecy dealing with the same subject, but each line emphasizes a different aspect of the overall testimony of modern Babylon and its threefold manifestation.
In Daniel 11:41 you have Daniel’s illustration of the threefold enemy, but it is not emphasizing how modern Babylon leads the world to Armageddon, or how it infiltrates the Seventh-day Adventist church. Here Daniel is emphasizing those that come out of Babylon during the Sunday law crisis. You find a second witness to this in Isaiah 11:14 and onward where once again Isaiah employs, as does Daniel, Edom, Moab and Ammon as symbols of those who come and stand with God’s people during the Sunday law crisis.
As a teacher I am not threatened by this brother’s questions. Information is reinforced through the question and answer process.
I would add one other thought: our history, the history of God’s people at the end of the world, has been illustrated over and over again in the Bible. When we look at these illustrations of God’s people at the end of the world we find that in most of those historical illustrations there is emphasis upon the specific way by which the Lord teaches His people. God’s people who accept the message of the Lord during those histories understand the method that He employs to teach His people, and those among His people who do not accept the message of their particular history, do not understand the method He always employs to convey His message. The method is called parables. Parables are symbolic language, or prophetic language. God speaks to His people through the prophetic language in order to convey His testing message. The Pharisees of Christ day did not understand the parables, for though they had eyes, they could not see, and though they had ears, they could not hear. There are many people in Adventism today who cannot apply the prophetic rules to the Sacred Word. It is not that they have no ability to do so—it is because they refuse to do so. This is nothing new. Solomon tells us that there is nothing new under the sun.
The three enemies of Bible prophecy are illustrated over and over again. Yes, there are those who do not understand them, but that will always be the case. . .God bless. Jeff.

Good Morning Jeff,

In Daniel 11:43: Could that be referring to the time when the “no buy-no sell” decree goes forth globally? Who are the “Lybians and Ethiopians” who “shall be at his steps”?

Daniel 11:44: Tidings “out of the east” refers to the Loud Cry final message of God’s mercy, but what message comes out of the north? The papacy is in the north! And I’m assuming the “great fury to destroy” refers to decree to kill God’s faithful.

Daniel 11:45: Forgive me, please. I know you have addressed this in earlier tapes and newsletters, but I am just now getting into this and don’t know where to look for this answer. I am thinking this could mean the papacy’s setting up residence or some other position of power in literal Jerusalem although I don’t know what “between the seas” refers to. We know there are negotiations going on between Israel and pope regarding Jerusalem, and I’m thinking this is also somehow tied into the radical Islam problem, too—with the pope seen as some kind of wonderful arbiter of peace regarding the ongoing hatred in that part of the world—a temporary peace, though. Your thoughts on this, please, and an explanation of “between the seas” and whatever else is apparent I don’t comprehend.

Jeff, through you, the Lord is blessing us. Thank you for your part in God’s plan. I will share what I fully comprehend on this end. Blessings to you and yours. JH.

Response

You should order the book titled, The Final Rise and Fall of the King of the North, or the Time of the End magazine. Both publications address these verses in detail. Jeff.

Brother Jeff,

I want to quote you a passage from a book written by William Shea titled Daniel, A Reader’s Guide. It was published in 2005. Elder Shea was a member of the Biblical Research Department and the Daniel and Revelation Committee, (DARCOM). He is now retired. What is interesting in this passage from the book is his comparing the history of Cambyses with verses forty through forty-five of Daniel eleven. This parallel history is in agreement with Sister White’s statement in Manuscript Releases, volume 13, page 394:

“We have no time to lose. Troublous times are before us. The world is stirred with the spirit of war. Soon the scenes of trouble spoken of in the prophecies will take place. The prophecy in the eleventh of Daniel has nearly reached its complete fulfillment. Much of the history that has taken place in fulfillment of this prophecy will be repeated.”

“One major question to consider is how much continuity exists between this passage and what has gone before. A direct continuity would suggest that the king of the north in this final passage is the same papal power that we have seen featured prominently in verses 23–39 of Daniel 11. If the connection is not quite so direct, then some other power could be involved. This volume takes the position that the connection between this final passage and the rest of the prophecy is quite direct. Therefore, we should identify the king of the north in verse 40–45 with the papal phase of Rome—the same power that has been the central focus of the preceding section of the prophecy.

“The king of the south appears briefly at the beginning of this section, but then takes a back seat as a minor actor. Earlier in this chapter, the title, ‘king of the south,’ referred to Egypt from which the Ptolemies came. But here at the end of chapter 11 the identification seems to be more spiritual than political. Thus just as the king of the north has become the papacy and is no longer a territorial king in the literal sense in which chapter 11 presents him at its beginning, so the king of the south is also a spiritual entity here in these last six verses of the chapter. Although in the twentieth century, the papacy does own a small piece of territory—Vatican City—its principle influence is spiritual. That comparison leads us to the conclusion that the king of the south should be seen here more as a philosophical force than a political or territorial power.

“Thus we need to ask, What characteristic of ancient Egypt makes its reappearance here at the time of the end? One characteristic ancient Egypt demonstrated toward the people of God was to reject their God, Yaweh. ‘Who is the Lord, that I should obey him to let Israel go? I do not know the Lord and I will not let Israel go’ Pharaoh declared (Exodus 5:2). In more modern times, this ‘Egyptian’ attitude is expressed in rationalism which in the area of religion has led to atheism or agnosticism. There was a major eruption of this kind of thought in the French Revolution, right at the time when history came to the prophetic ‘time of the end’ in 1798. The atheism expressed in Marxist communism is a direct descendant of the philosophy developed at the time of the French Revolution. It is interesting to note in this setting that the book of Revelation, too, appears to make just such a connection with its symbols. Revelation 11 talks about the two witnesses of God—the Law and the Prophets, or the Old and the New Testaments—who prophesied throughout the long 1,260 day-years period of the Middle Ages. Then at the end of that period, a new power was to arise that would put the witnesses to death, and their slaughtered bodies would lie in the streets of the city for three and a half day-years. This fits very well with the antibiblical actions and sentiments expressed at the height of the French Revolution (1789–1793) in which the Bible was rejected in favor of the goddess of reason. However, we need not limit our understanding of the king of the south in Daniel 11:40–45 to revolutionary France. It might rather be identified as rationalistic humanism—the major philosophical upheaval the French Revolution bequeathed the modern world. That spirit has lived on in communism and in many other aspects of the modern world. And it has been in conflict with the church. Witness the fate of the Catholic Church in Communist countries, especially those behind the previously existing Iron Curtain. As a result, for a time the Soviet Union was the most popular nominee for the end-time king of the south. But with the collapse of communism there has been waning support for that idea.

“We need not see the king of the south in this passage as a literal, territorial France or Russia. Rather, we can view it as embodying the same ideas on the subject of religion as presented in the philosophy of those powers. Rationalistic humanism, leading to atheism or agnosticism, would fit well the actions and attitudes of the king of the south. Revelation 11:8 provides a figurative connection between these ancient and modern attitudes by stating that the bodies of the biblical witnesses would lie ‘in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.’

Jesus was crucified again in the philosophical terms and religious expressions of this Egyptian-like ideology that has been perpetuated by Revolutionary France and Russia.

“In summary, the king of the north in the time of the end probably should be connected with the preceding dominant power in prophecy—the papacy of the Middle Ages, now in its final phase. The king of the south, modeled upon anti-Yawehistic attitudes of ancient Egypt, fits well with the modern movement of rationalistic humanism that leads to atheism or agnosticism. In the modern world, revolutionary France and the former Soviet Union have been the special propagators of those ideas. Even though the power and position of these nations have declined somewhat, the spirit of the age which they fostered persists in many places and continues to present a major challenge to the church.

“It appears that Daniel 11:40–45 utilizes an actual historical incident in Persian history as a model, or type, for the spiritual battle between good and evil that will take place in the time of the end. The example comes from the Egyptian campaign of the Persian king Cambyses in 525 B.C. Invaders of Judah and Egypt from the north had come through Syria, which lay to the north, and thus from Judah’s viewpoint, conquerors from that direction ultimately came through Syria. In order to engage the king of the south in Egypt, ‘the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships’ (vs. 40a). Cambyses was approaching Egypt by both sea and land, a course that is described in these words, ‘He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood’ (vs. 40b). Among these countries would be Judah. ‘He will also invade the Beautiful Land’ (vs. 41a).

“Continuing his course southward toward Egypt, Cambyses bypassed Trans-Jordan and did not attack it as he passed through Judah. As Daniel 11:41b puts it: ‘Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab, and the leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand.’ Cambyses did not bother with these nations as he traveled down the coastal road to the west.

“Cambyses continued on his way to Egypt and conquered it. This victory is brought to view in verse 42: ‘He will extend his power over many countries; Egypt will not escape. He will gain control of the treasures of gold and silver and all the riches of Egypt.’ But Cambyses did not plan to stop with his conquest of Egypt, for the end of verse 43 says that he was going to obtain submission from the Lybians to the west of Egypt and the Nubians to the south of Egypt (the modern Sudan).

“Having gone this far, however, he was to receive dire news from the rear—from the east and the north (vs. 44). This means that the news from the east had traveled west and then had been brought down through Syria and Palestine to reach the king while he was in Egypt. Although historians don’t know what this news was, it clearly upset Cambyses greatly. He set out with his forces in great anger to rectify the situation (vs. 44). As he retracted his road north, he came through Judah again. While passing through that territory, he encamped on his way. The location is given as ‘between the seas toward the beautiful holy mountain’ (vs. 45). He did not come up to the holy mountain, Mount Zion in Jerusalem; he only pitched his tents towards it. His actual campsite location was down on the coastal Plain of Sharon ‘between the seas and the beautiful holy mountain.’ His target was not Jerusalem; he was intent on returning to the north where he had come from and from whence his bad news originated. But while encamped in Judea he was to be overtaken by his end. It would come without any human intervention. It was not to be brought about by battle, and none could help him avert this personal tragedy (vs. 45).

“While Cambyses was encamped in the Plain of Sharon, he died as the result of a self-inflicted wound, stabbing himself in the thigh with his sword. Among modern historians, interpretations of this event differ. Some say it was a suicide attempt; others say it was an accident. Whatever the cause, Cambyses died after twenty days, and none of the troops in his mighty army could help him. Paraphrasing the words of Daniel, he came to his end, but none could help him (vs. 45). The ancients saw this as a punishment of God. Cambyses was seen as a madman by the people of his time, and one more of his mad acts was to kill the sacred Apis bull when he entered Egypt by stabbing it in the thigh. Thus when he struck himself in the same location, whether by accident or intent, this was seen as retributive justice.

“Thus all the events described in Daniel 11:40–45 took place in a literal way in the life, experience, and death of Cambyses the Persian king. But at this point in the course of the prophecy, we are not dealing any longer with ancient times. We are dealing with ‘the time of the end’ (11:40). The powers involved are no longer a literal Persian king and a literal king of Egypt. They have become symbols for the powers at the time of the end. These powers we have identified as the papacy (the king of the north) and atheism (the king of the south). In some way, the religious power of the Roman Church will gain some sort of victory over the forces of atheism before the end of time (vs. 43). But while this power is enjoying the fruits of that short-lived victory, more serious challenges will arise in the east (vs. 44), for the kings of the east will march forth, according to the book of Revelation (Revelation 16:12). The book of Revelation also speaks of that final spiritual battle in literal terms, locating it at Armageddon (16:16), or ‘the mount of Megiddo.’ Megiddo is also located between the seas and the glorious holy mountain. The papacy is one of the spiritual powers that will be involved in that final spiritual battle. “The plain of Sharon is located just south of Megiddo, and that plain leads up to the mountain range of Mount Carmel which intersects Megiddo and the Plain of Sharon. It was on that literal, geographical plain of Megiddo that Cambyses was encamped when he died. It was on the mount itself where, in earlier biblical times, the contest between the true God and the false gods of Baal took place (1 Kings 18). That kind of spiritual struggle will be repeated in modern times, but it will not be a literal, physical struggle upon that geographical mountain (vs. 45). That ancient contest symbolizes the final spiritual conflict that will take place on a worldwide basis. From this final battle, Christ and His heavenly army will emerge victorious. Satan and all his hosts will be defeated in this final great spiritual battle on earth. That battle is described in Revelation 19:11–21. Revelation 16 describes only the preparations for the battle of Armageddon. Revelation 19 describes the actual battle of the great day of God Almighty, and Christ wins! By borrowing from the ancient experience of Cambyses, the course of that battle has been described. This modern Cambyses will fail too, just as the ancient one did.” William Shea, Daniel, A Reader’s Guide, 264–268.

Response

Brother PR,

I am familiar with the repetition of Cambyses’ history in the last six verses of Daniel eleven and believe that it is a valid fulfillment of Sister White’s statement that “much of the history” that “has been fulfilled” within the history of Daniel eleven “will be repeated” when the last six verses of Daniel eleven are fulfilled. I know that Elder Shea has an incorrect view of the “daily” in the book of Daniel and that false premise forces him to conclude that the papacy begins as the king of the north in verse twenty-three; this is incorrect. The papacy becomes the subject of Daniel eleven in verse thirty-one. Prior to that – beginning in verse sixteen and ending in verse thirty – Pagan Rome is the king of the north and the subject of the narrative He obviously does not understand the flow of events in verses forty through forty-five, so he has a limited view of the movement of the atheistic power through the verses. Beyond that I have little problem with his analysis of the history of Cambyses, other than some minor nuances that would probably be resolved if he were but to use the King James Bible as his point of reference.

Of course the most important parallel history is verses thirty through thirty six, which Sister White quotes and then informs us that scenes similar to those described in these words will be repeated. The intelligence between pagan Rome and papal Rome in verse thirty parallels the intelligence that was carried out by Ronald Reagan and the pope in fulfillment of verse forty. Uriah Smith emphasizes that the word translated as “intelligence” in verse thirty represents a “connivance” and he points to the conniving that took place between pagan and papal Rome in order to place the papacy on the throne of the earth in 538. Reagan’s and the pope’s connivance is a parallel and I am amazed that when the historians inform us how the communication between these two men was carried out, that it was accomplished by the director of the Central Intelligence Agency.

In verse thirty-one the arms of Clovis would stand up for the papal power and accomplish three things: pollute the sanctuary of strength (which was the city of Rome); remove the daily (which was the religion of paganism) and place the abomination that maketh desolate (which marked the empowerment of the papacy in 538).

Verse thirty-one identifies that the military might of the United States will stand up for the papacy (as it began to do in the Reagan years starting in verse forty); the United States will pollute its sanctuary of strength (which is marking the overturning of the Constitution at the Sunday law in verse forty-one); the United States will take away the daily (change its religion from Protestantism to apostate Protestantism starting in 1842 and reaching its maturity in verse forty-one); and the United States will place the papacy on the throne of the earth (in verses fortytwo and forty-three).

Verses thirty-two through thirty-five describe the persecutions of the 1,260 years of papal rule and parallel the persecution described in verse forty-four. Verse thirty-six identifies that in spite of the arrogance and self-exaltation of the papal power the deadly wound was determined to be delivered to the papacy in 1798 paralleling the papal demise in verse forty-five as human probation closes and the king of the north comes to his end with none to help.

Another history that is repeated when the last six verses of Daniel eleven are fulfilled is verses sixteen and seventeen of Daniel eleven. Those two verse parallel Daniel 8:9 where we are informed that pagan Rome would overcome three geographical powers as it took control of the world. When we understand that the established rule in Daniel eleven is that when a power conquers Babylon that power becomes the king of the north and that when a power conquers Egypt that power then becomes the king of the south, we can see the history of verses sixteen and seventeen as a parallel to verses forty through forty-three.

When pagan Rome in verse sixteen conquered Syria, which in that history included Babylon it became the king of the north. As the king of the north, pagan Rome then conquered the king of the south by capturing Egypt. Historians including Uriah Smith point out that it would have been difficult if not impossible altogether for Rome to defeat the king of the south in that history had Rome not first formed an alliance with Israel. This alliance parallels the alliance between the pope (the king of the north) and Reagan in verse forty that allowed Rome to once again conquer the king of the south— the former Soviet Union. Once Egypt was under the authority of pagan Rome (the king of the north) it is no longer a king—it has become simply Egypt.

After pagan Rome subdued the king of the south, through the help of God’s chosen people living in the glorious land, then pagan Rome conquered Israel—the glorious land in verse sixteen; paralleling the king of the north’s conquering of the United States at the Sunday law in verse forty-one. After this the rebellion of Anthony and Cleopatra broke out in Egypt and pagan Rome needed to return and once again subdue Egypt, thus paralleling verses forty-two and forty-three.

So pagan Rome first became the king of the north then conquered the king of the south, the glorious land and Egypt—just as the papacy does in verses forty through forty-three.

Another history that has bearing on the correct understanding of the last six verse of Daniel eleven that is repeated is the parallel histories of verse sixteen and seventeen with verses thirty and thirty-two. What I mean by these being parallel histories is that in verses sixteen and seventeen pagan Rome must conquer three geographical powers just as three geographical powers are subdued for the papal power in the history of verse thirty and thirty-one. These two histories parallel the three geographical powers that modern Rome must overcome in verses forty through forty-three.

Also in verse twenty-two we find that pagan Rome would crucify Christ.

“And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.”

The persecution of Christ by pagan Rome parallels the persecution of Christ by papal Rome in the person of His witnesses in verses thirty-two through thirty-five and both these histories parallel the persecution of verse forty-four.

Daniel eleven is a very profound chapter of prophecy. Jeff.

Hi Jeff,

I am student of prophecy and was wondering if you have any back ground information on Daniel two with regards to the ten toes and how you actually came to the conclusion that they represent the United Nations. I am just trying to understand present truth whilst praying for the Lord for spiritual guidance so is there any way you could assist me as I have been listening to your sermons lately. Anything I study I like to be able to see it in Scripture or Sister White, as it says “Upon the witness of two or three.” I would be grateful if you could help me. God bless. Get back to me when you have time. A.

Response

Brother A,

The end of the world is the toes, not the ten kingdoms of Daniel seven that came about from the division of Rome into ten nations by the year 476.

“Our kingdom is not of this world. We are waiting for our Lord from heaven to come to earth to put down all authority and power, and set up His everlasting kingdom. Earthly powers are shaken. We need not, and cannot, expect union among the nations of the earth. Our position in the image of Nebuchadnezzar is represented by the toes, in a divided state, and of a crumbling material, that will not hold together. Prophecy shows us that the great day of God is right upon us. It hasteth greatly.” Testimonies, volume 1, 360.

There is a confederacy against God and His people at the end of the world, and one of the prophetic symbols of this confederacy is the number ten. In Psalm 83 there is a confederacy that seeks to destroy Israel, and when the tribes that make up the confederacy are mentioned there are ten.

A Song or Psalm of Asaph. Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God. For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:

The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes; Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre; Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah. Psalm 83:1–8.

Don’t confuse the children of Lot as the eleventh tribe, for the children of Lot have already been mentioned. The children of Lot were Ammon and Moab and they are mentioned in this fashion as a general description of the entire evil ten-fold confederacy.

All the prophets spoke of the end of the world:

“Never are we absent from the mind of God. God is our joy and our salvation. Each of the ancient prophets spoke less for their own time than for ours, so that their prophesying is in force for us. ‘Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come’ (1 Corinthians 10:11). ‘Not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into’ (1 Peter 1:12).” Selected Messages, book 3, 338.

The work of the ten tribes in Psalm 83 is to cut Israel off, thus identifying that they are going to attempt to destroy Israel. Israel at the end of the world is modern Israel.

They are identified as a confederacy, and have consulted together with “one consent.” The one consent parallels the “one mind” of the ten kings of Revelation seventeen. The ten kings of Revelation seventeen are the ten tribes of Psalm 83 and they are the ten toes of Daniel two.

And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Revelation 17:12–14.

“‘These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful’ (Revelation 17:13, 14). ‘These have one mind.’ There will be a universal bond of union, one great harmony, a confederacy of Satan’s forces. “And shall give their power and strength unto the beast.” Thus is manifested the same arbitrary, oppressive power against religious liberty, freedom to worship God according to the dictates of conscience, as was manifested by the papacy, when in the past it persecuted those who dared to refuse to conform with the religious rites and ceremonies of Romanists. In the warfare to be waged in the last days there will be united, in opposition to God’s people, all the corrupt powers that have apostatized from allegiance to the law of Jehovah. In this warfare the Sabbath of the fourth commandment will be the great point at issue, for in the Sabbath commandment the great Lawgiver identifies Himself as the Creator of the heavens and the earth.” Selected Messages, book 3, 392.

The ten horns have one mind, thus paralleling the ten tribe’s one consent. The ten horns bring warfare against Christ through the persecution of His people, thus paralleling the ten tribes cutting Israel off as a nation. The ten kings’ rule with the beast for one hour and the beast is the papal power. The papal power in Revelation 2:20 is represented by Jezebel. Jezebel was married to Ahab who was the ruler over the ten northern tribes of Israel, thus identifying that Ahab’s ten-fold kingdom also represents the ten tribes of Psalm 83, the ten kings of Revelation 17 and the ten toes of Daniel two.

Daniel 2:44 states:

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

The kings referenced are the kings represented by the ten toes, for God sets up His kingdom in the latter rain time period:

“The latter rain is coming on those that are pure—all then will receive it as formerly.

“When the four angels let go, Christ will set up His kingdom. None receive the latter rain but those who are doing all they can. Christ would help us. All could be overcomers by the grace of God, through the blood of Jesus. All heaven is interested in the work. Angels are interested.” Spalding and Magan, 3.

The ten toes therefore represent ten kings that are active in history during the end of the world, during the latter rain time period. Hope this helps. Jeff.

Brother A Replies

Hello Jeff,

I have another question. Are the ten countries in Psalm 83 the same literal countries which make up the United Nations or is it symbolic for ten other countries or people. A.

Response

Brother A,

Sister White speaks of an “evil confederacy.” The “evil confederacy” is of end time Bible prophecy is identified many places in the Scriptures. It has many different characteristics. One of those prophetic characteristics is that it is a confederacy, and the confederacy is represented by the number “ten,” so the ten tribes of Psalm 83, the ten toes of Daniel two, the ten tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel, the ten kings of Revelation seventeen, the ten cities of Ezekiel thirty all represent the United Nations at the end of the world that has divided the world into ten districts in order to govern the world when it is put in place as the one-world government in the near future. Jeff.

Hi Jeff,

It’s J. I was recently doing a study on Daniel chapter 2 and came to the conviction that the ten toes are the ten kings of Revelation 17 alone and not the ten divisions of the old Roman Empire. Then as I did my research it seems like the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy agree that it is the ten kings of Revelation 17. Then the Lord led me to look at one of your newsletters which were dealing with that subject and I see we have the same view. The iron and clay represents church and state and is relating to the last days. Some of the resistance I met agreed that the ten toes are the ten kings of Revelation 17, but says it’s also the papacy in the dark ages riding the ten kings. I don’t agree with that. I am currently putting something together to prove that wrong but would be grateful for any info you can put my way. Thanks Jeff. J.

Response

I do not believe it is the European kings either. It cannot be. There wasn’t ten kings during the Dark Ages, for three had to be removed before the papacy ruled. The two legs represent both division of Rome and the ten toes must appear after both divisions of Rome. Each of Daniel’s prophecies identifies Rome in two phases. The two legs, the two diverse kingdoms, the little horn and the king of the north all represent Rome’s two phases. I simply choose to not appear very militant on that teaching, because I hate to alienate brethren that still hold that traditional view. Good to hear from you. God bless. Jeff.

Hello Jeff,

I saw you when you were at Diamond Lake Church in Washington State. I pray that God is blessing your ministry.

I have a question. I have been reading the Prophetic Time series and am on number five, but when in that series you get to Daniel 8:17 you said that the vision that Daniel was talking about in this is the little glimpse which is Mare’h but according to my Young’s Concordance it is Chazon which is the entire vision. Can you clarify this. It may be that you have a better dictionary than I do that is more complete.

I have also been wondering how you come up with the Greek and Hebrew meanings of the words. What do you use for this? I have the Strongs and the Youngs concordances but it still is not very informative. Is there a Greek and Hebrew dictionary that you could recommend or maybe even something else that you have found especially helpful. Also where have you gotten all of your books of the early pioneers like William Miller are they all in one spot like a CD Rom of something like that? Thank you so much. C.

Response

Sister C,

I have used Strong’s Concordance through the years as the primary source. It wasn’t until about two years ago that it was pointed out to me that Strong’s was incorrect on Daniel 8:17. The new Strong’s which they checked with a computer has corrected it, but that was just recently printed. I have made a public clarification in previous newsletters.

I use the SDA Bible dictionary. There may be a better one, but for what I am pointing out, it is close enough. The definition of the names, that I point out are never to the level where I argue the deeper linguistics. I simply look at the basic meaning given.

I have come across some pioneer books through the years, but my main reference is the Pioneer CD-ROM. It is called “Words of the Pioneers”, and I am sure if you run a web search you can locate a place to order it from. It is very helpful. Everyone should have it. It can be incorporated into the Ellen White CD-ROM, where you can use the same search engine for the pioneer writings and Ellen White. God bless. Jeff.

Dear Brother WB,

The phrase “shall be with a flood” is found in Daniel 9:26. The solution is found by breaking down the verse into two parts, and comparing them to Revelation 12, as follows:

Daniel 9

PAGAN PERSECUTION:-

The People of the Prince that Destroy the City and the Sanctuary:

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Daniel 9:26

PAPAL PERSECUTION:-

A Flood:

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. Daniel 9:26

Revelation 12

PAGAN PERSECUTION:-

A Great Red Dragon:

And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. Revelation 12:3, 4

“…Thus while the dragon, primarily, represents Satan, it is, in a secondary sense, a symbol of pagan Rome.” The Great Controversy, 438.

PAPAL PERSECUTION:-

A Flood that lasts 1,260 Years:

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. Revelation 12:14,15 Hope this answers your question. Jeff.

Dear Jeff,

I’ve been reading your February newsletter online, I just found your website. A fellow pastor had wanted me to read your material. So I’m in the process of working my way back through the newsletters.

On page 12, I notice that you have Daniel 9:23, being chazown rather than mareh. I think you must be following Strong’s concordance on this. Strong’s is mistaken here.

I recently discovered this while discussing Daniel 9 with a Baptist pastor. I was showing the connection between Daniel 8 and 9, how 9 is a continued explanation of 8, specifically of the mareh of the 2300 days. He pointed out that Strong’s has chazown in this verse. Since this did not agree with my notes from college, nor any comments on this subject I have read, I knew I needed to look into it more. My Young’s concordance had Mareh. So I dug out my Hebrew Bible and checked and it is Mareh.

So Gabriel whom he saw in the chazown tells him to consider the mareh, the 2300 days, not the overall vision. Gabriel had already interpreted the rest of the chazown in 8. It was only the mareh that Gabriel did not explain, other than to say it was true 8:26, and that Daniel did not understand 8:27.

So Daniel 9 a time prophecy explains the mareh a time prophecy. I look forward to reading the rest of your newsletters and the other information on your website. Yours in Christ, Pastor MC.

Response

Dear Pastor MC,

I stand corrected. In the past two months I have been redirected in my thinking and understanding of a few important points in Daniel. Your unsolicited email is an example of how the Lord has personally opened up a few understandings that I had previously not recognized or understood. You are correct in assuming I refer to Strong’s. After your email I went and found that the new Strong’s has made the correction also. Thanks for the input. I intend to present a study on the 1843 chart in California in a few weeks that will be recorded and hopefully part of that presentation will be to restate Mareh and Chazown in Daniel for the record.

Dear Brother Jeff,

Please convey my thanks and love to Kathy, Bronwyn, and Jason. They made us feel wanted and cared for and we will always be grateful. I’m especially grateful for the opportunity you have offered to help with your written presentations. . . .

We purchased the Blythe DVDs and some books. In the short week we have been home, I have tried to listen to Russell’s presentations in that year-ago school, hoping to gain a foothold to understand his presentations this December. I’ve spent many hours on that project, some of them shared with my wife D., and sometimes I feel I’m getting the idea; then D. points out that my idea is wrong. What I’m trying to say is, that although my English is strong, I am too often prepared to express an idea I’ve gained, without asking her to edit me. Everyone needs an editor, I most specially.

I am about to express a pet idea of mine which seems to contradict one of yours. I know these DVDs are from your position a year ago, and it may have changed in some respects since that time. We haven’t received the DVDs from the recent session and I can’t check my observations.

Especially I want to emphasize that my approach to study is far different from yours, and not likely to produce the wonderful challenges you do. And even in my approach, I do not have the necessary education to really study the original languages; I rely only on my observations of a few verses of scripture. Several years ago I noticed a curious network of strange translations surrounding the 2300 days, and I have mentioned it to you earlier. Now I need to present it in detail to you and ask your consideration of it. The bottom line is that I think you have made a very minor error in saying that the last vision of Daniel begins with 10:1—I believe that Daniel 10:1 is the last verse of the previous vision.

It often occurs in the Bible that the translators have placed verse and chapter divisions with which we do not agree—but I can’t think of a good example at this moment, except Daniel 10:1.

Please refer to Daniel 10:1 and its relation to Daniel 9:23:

At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to show thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

Daniel 10:1: In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision..

Daniel 9:23:

understand- biyn

the matter- dabar

and consider- biyn

the vision- mareh

We are seeing only the roots of the Hebrew words in Strong’s, and the actual words are probably different in sound, in particles, etc. But “understand” and “consider” are both translated from the same root.

This structure is a chiasm, a kind of poetry where the writer is emphasizing an idea by expressing it a second time in different words. I believe Daniel is being told to understand the vision by understanding the matter.

Dabar (matter) is most often translated “word” including speech, sayings,—about 800 times out of 1441 occurrences in the Bible.

Mareh is the name Jesus gave to the 2300- days part of the vision of chapter 8. It would certainly be fair to translate Daniel 9:23 understand the word and understand the 2300 days.

Now look at Daniel 10:1: as you point out, “thing” occurs three times in the verse, always translated from dabar. In English this hides from us the back-reference to Daniel 9:23, which is more apparent if we do not translate dabar:

A dabar was revealed unto Daniel . . . the dabar was true, but the time appointed was long: and he understood the dabar and had understanding of the 2300 days.

Because of this very close association, I believe Daniel 10:1 should have been numbered Daniel 9:28, and the chapter should have begun with Daniel 10:2. I realize that the Hebrew scribes were probably the ones responsible for the chapter separations (as you know, the text was written in blocks), but could not verify since my Interlinear shows only a colon ending sentences, not the original panels of script.

Anyway, I do not think that “a thing was revealed unto Daniel” constitutes a separate vision, and it seems very clear that the vision of Daniel’s understanding in 10:1 was the 2300 days of 8:14. For that reason I would have agreed if you had said that Daniel’s last vision began with 10:2.

At this point in my study of the DVDs of Blythe, I have a short list of questions and comments. Remember that my middle name is Pikipiki, and I’m hoping that my editorial comments are accepted as trying to help.

DVD #2 chapter 1 frame 8: Rendering should be Rending.

I have eliminated the words incredible and unbelievable from my vocabulary, and I urge that all speakers for the Lord should do so as well. Both words mean that the information indicated is not true; but this meaning has been corrupted in our generation to mean wonderful. You use them correctly, but I wonder whether your listeners derive the correct meaning?

You have made a great point of the meaning of the names of prophets. However I think I understand that God first chose in sequence two men to carry His message to our pioneers: Foy and Foss. If either of those men had become a prophet, would their names have fit the pattern? My wife tells me the Seventh-day Adventist church claims 18 million members at this time. If the proportion of 1000:1 were applied, that would indicate 18,000 among the 144,000, which sounds about right.

You emphasize that the Close of Probation is THE all-important test; but I think there will be others of equal importance to follow. I would not like to teach that one who passed the first test is guaranteed to pass all the others as well. You repeat that the “at that time” of Daniel 12:1 is best answered by the events of 11:44, 45; but pleasenote that verse 40 also begins with “at that time.” I saw it and kept waiting for you to acknowledge it in your talk.

Regarding King of kings and Lord of Lords, you make a great point of the capitalization; but please recognize that capitalization is a style in the hands of the translators and editors, not of the author.

Lord (capitalized) is the style used specifically to indicate Yahweh in the KJV (most editions) Old Testament. The same style in the New Testament of course indicates something entirely different, since YHWH does not appear in Greek. I find it very interesting that the editors of Review and Herald, and Signs of the Times, adopted a new style about the turn of the century, in that they began to capitalize even pronouns which they thought were meant to indicate deity. But in each case where we read such capitalization in our Bibles, we must be very careful to evaluate who is speaking, and remember that the style is only a fashion of the editors.

I was asked by a reader to capitalize Him when Ellen White referred to Jesus, even though it might appear in the older papers as him. I had found several instances where I could not be entirely sure whether divinity was meant, and I refuse to do so. (Modern style books deplore the style, but for different reasons.) I agree with my correspondent that capitalization makes it easier for the reader to “understand,” but is the understanding correct?

Bottom line: King is capitalized when part of a proper name: King Nebuchadnezzar, not otherwise: king of Babylon. When we write King of kings, we indicate that Deity is King over the kings (lowercase) of earth. But when you write Lord or Lords (both uppercase) on your slides, you are indicating that Jesus is Lord over the other (heavenly) Lords.

Enough criticism already. I found a wonderful insight in Leslie Harding’s, Jesus Is My Judge: he says that when Daniel heard Jesus say “unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed,” Daniel knew that the sanctuary was cleansed on only one day of the year—the Day of Atonement—and that he knew therefore, that the vision was for 2300 years. That is a much more satisfactory explanation than my own guess, which had been that Daniel counted 2300 days, and when the prophecy wasn’t fulfilled, then he knew it was for years, not days.

Interesting: that tsaba’ is usually translated host or hosts 391 times, war, armies, battle 83 times out of 485 occurrences, time appointed only once, Daniel 10:1.

Again I ask you to study my poor explanation of the network of strange translations around the 2300 days. I believe no other prophecy has so many forward- nd back-references to indicate to us its extreme importance. And the fact that these references were so obvious in Hebrew, and so hidden in English, tells me that God Himself did the sealing, and also did the opening of the seals at the time of the end. As you know, I believe God was present in the congregations of translators of the KJV; which no other translation can claim. CT

Response

Dear Brother CT,

A few points—in response to your email. You sent me some of these thoughts on the word dabar a few years ago and I accepted your insight, although have not fully settled into what line of truth is being tied together as he employs these words in his writings. As always, I refuse to think that the words Daniel uses are an accident, so there is certainly something relevant there that is clouded by what I would say is an inconsistent translation, though I have no criticism for the translators.

I understand your thinking on Daniel 10:1, but when chapter nine begins with 9:1 “In the first year of Darius” and chapter ten begins with “In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed unto Daniel” it is hard for me to insist that verse one of chapter ten should be part of chapter nine, and verse two the starting point for chapter ten. In terms of the message I have no problem following your logic, and I certainly believe the entire book of Daniel needs to be addressed as a whole unit of thought, in spite of the different languages and time periods in which it is written, the different languages it is written in, and even more than one author. At least in one sense the book of Daniel is simply an expression of truth that was produced by the mind of the Holy Spirit, or the word of Christ. That being said, I agree with the line or connection you are noting with the word dabar.

When it comes to names in the Bible, I have noted an interesting phenomenon, though I have not and am not now attempting to prove or establish the following observation. I have checked many names of people and places in God’s word for their meaning. In doing so, I find that almost always, when the meaning is found it has a direct relationship with the story at hand. Also I have found that almost always, men who represent God’s faithful people in the passage have a godly name or meaning, but the wicked in the passage usually have a meaning consistent with their ungodly role. But many times, when it comes to the names of the ungodly in the passage, there is no known meaning for their names. I have come to believe, (though I have not proved) that this refers to the fact that the godly will have their names recorded and remembered in the book of life, but the ungodly will not.

Although I have not done an exhaustive search for the names of Hazen Foss and William Foy there is an interesting, though no doubt unimportant observation. The historical account of Hazen Foss is that he ended up as a lost man, but not so with William Foy. Though Foy declined the prophetic office it appears at a surface level that he continued to be a practicing Christian. In my limited search of the meaning of Hazen Foss, there is no meaning for either name, whereas with William Foy his name means as follows:

William (Short form Wil) This popular Christian name has many variations in different European languages. There are more than forty saints of this name. It originates from German and means “strenuous guardian”.

Foy\, n. [F. foi, old spelling foy, faith. See {Faith}.]1. Faith; allegiance; fealty. [Obs.] — Spenser.

So William Foy would or could mean “strenuous guardian of the faith”. Jeff.

Dear Brother Pippenger,

In your talk, The Refreshing, you quote extensively from Review and Herald, April 27, 1911. I looked this article up and noticed extensive italicization. Since Sister White rarely used italics, I wondered if they were supplied by the author of this article, D.E. Robinson.

I do not have access to the Unpublished Manuscript, written in 1899, to which he refers, but I did look up Testimonies, volume1, 353-354, and there are no italics. Nor did she use italics in Testimonies, volume 8, 117; The Great Controversy, 604-605, 448-449; or Review and Herald, August 13, 1897, also quoted by Robinson. All italics in the Review and Herald, April 27, 1911, are supplied by Robinson.

I only mention it because you made a point of saying more than once that Ellen White used italics to emphasize certain points. She didn’t. She almost never placed forceful emphasis on her written words, relying herself on the Holy Spirit’s power to impress minds, and not on her own emphasis. Sincerely, KH.

Response

Thank you for the clarification. The italics in Review and Herald, August 27, 1897 have always seemed significant to me, in the sense that they clearly emphasize when and where the mark of the beast and seal of God are placed in the prophetic sequence of events. Both, of course, take place at the Sunday law. I will cease to state, as I have done in the past, that Sister White italicized the parts in the passage, but would note that the italics only clarify what is stated. I would also add that Ellen White provided for members of her Estate to do minor editorial revision on her writings for the sake of clarity. DE Robinson was part of the EGW Estate and therefore was acting within the scope of authority set forth by the prophet herself.

“If the light of truth has been presented to you, revealing the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, and showing that there is no foundation in the Word of God for Sunday observance, and yet you still cling to the false sabbath, refusing to keep holy the Sabbath which God calls ‘my holy day,’ you receive the mark of the beast. When does this take place? When you obey the decree that commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and worship God, while you know that there is not a word in the Bible showing Sunday to be other than a common working-day, you consent to receive the mark of the beast, and refuse the seal of God. If we receive this mark in our foreheads or in our hands, the judgments pronounced against the disobedient must fall upon us. But the seal of the living God is placed upon those who conscientiously keep the Sabbath of the Lord.” Review and Herald, April 27, 1911. (Emphasis in the original)

Just finished reading your newsletter. I Really enjoyed it. I met you at JVD’s place here in California about a year and a half ago. I know that Satan is desperately trying to get us side tracked but the following verses seem to contradict your understanding of “literal blood line Israel”. How do you interpret Luke 21:24, And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled, and Romans 11:25–26, For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.

Could it be that Sister White simply bought into some of the popular but untrue theology of her day, just like John the Baptist did by believing that the Messiah was coming to deliver the Jewish nation from Roman oppression? Verily John was the greatest prophet that ever was and even he carried with him some of the bad theology of his day. Surely if it was possible for John to have some misconceptions of the Messiah’s ministry, Sister Ellen G. White could also have misunderstood the role of the literal blood line of Israel. You put these quotes in your newsletter.

“The city of Jerusalem is no longer a sacred place. The curse of God is upon it because of the rejection and crucifixion of Christ. A dark blot of guilt rests upon it, and never again will it be a sacred place until the purifying fires of heaven have cleansed it. At the time when this sin cursed earth is purified from every stain of sin, Christ will again stand upon the Mount of Olives. As His feet rest upon it, it will part asunder, and become a great plain, prepared for the city of God.” Review and Herald, July 30, 1901.

“Then I was pointed to some who are in the great error of believing that it is their duty to go to Old Jerusalem, and think they have a work to do there before the Lord comes. Such a view is calculated to take the mind and interest from the present work of the Lord, under the message of the third angel; for those who think that they are yet to go to Jerusalem will have their minds there, and their means will be withheld from the cause of present truth to get themselves and others there. I saw that such a mission would accomplish no real good, that it would take a long while to make a very few of the Jews believe even in the first advent of Christ, much more to believe in His second advent. I saw that Satan had greatly deceived some in this thing and that souls all around them in this land could be helped by them and led to keep the commandments of God, but they were leaving them to perish. I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things now, in the gathering time, to keep them from throwing their whole interest into the present work of the Lord, and to cause them to neglect the necessary preparation for the day of the Lord.” Early Writings, 75.

Doesn’t it seem as though Israel has been built up despite Sister White’s prophecy? It appears to me that she is wrong on this particular prophecy, but maybe I do not understand what it is she is really saying here. Please explain to me what your understanding is of the concerns I have addressed above.

Response

You raise several questions. I personally reject your analysis of John the Baptist’s bad theology. The fact that a prophet may have misconceptions about Biblical concepts does not mean that the Holy Spirit, who is the author of inspired writings, would allow that prophet to record error. There are no inspired writings where John the Baptists teaches that the Messiah would come and set up a literal earthly kingdom. A prophet’s personal misconceptions, does not demonstrate that the writings of the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy are slightly erroneous.

It is the Protestant world that normally tries to associate Luke 21 with literal modern day Jerusalem, although some Adventists fall into this ditch as well. The Protestant reasoning is that, Jerusalem was trodden down by Gentiles from AD 70 at the destruction of Jerusalem, until the Israeli war in 1967, when Israel captured Jerusalem from Arab control. They assume that from AD 70, until 1967, Jerusalem was trodden down by the Gentiles. This reasoning is fascinating— but does not agree with Scripture. As one of many examples on this subject that could be cited:

But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. Revelation 11:2–3.

Scripture teaches that the “holy city” is Jerusalem. Scripture also teaches that Jerusalem was to be “tread under foot” until the termination of the “forty-two months”, which is the termination of the 1260 years that the Papacy ruled the world. From 1798 through 1967, literal Jerusalem was controlled by Gentiles. Yet Scripture teaches the Gentiles cease to tread the holy city at the end of papal rule. The truth connected with the Gentiles treading down Jerusalem is connected with spiritual—not literal Jerusalem. The study of Luke 21 is much deeper than we can take up here, but we do address it in The Prophetic Time series.

Those in Adventism who (possibly unknowingly) attempt to apply Catholic rules of Bible prophecy to the Scriptures seem to manifest an inability to recognize some very simple truths found in the writings of Ellen White. One of those truths may be the difference in your and my understanding. (It is a Catholic prophetic rule that applies prophecy in a literal fashion at the end of the world.)

When Sister White teaches that literal Jerusalem is no longer the focus of Bible prophecy, you assume that the few places where she refers to Jerusalem in this light are errors that she didn’t see in her time. Yet in her writings you will find literally hundreds, if not thousands of places, where she takes a passage from the Bible and applies it in a worldwide spiritual application at the end of the world. As a matter of fact it is the only way that she ever applies passages from Bible prophecy. She takes the literal Biblical nations, or cities, or kingdoms, or peoples, or kings, or men and places them in a spiritual application that encompasses mankind and the entire earth at the end of time.

Her statements about Jerusalem illustrate how she always applies end-time Bible prophecy. She sees the prophecies dealing with Jerusalem as applying to spiritual Jerusalem at the end of the world. She sees the prophecies dealing with Israel as dealing with spiritual Israel at the end of the world. She sees the prophecies of Babylon as dealing with spiritual Babylon at the end of the world. Her writings are completely consistent with the rules of Bible prophecy that William Miller adopted and used, and her writings agree with the rules of Bible prophecy that the Protestant Reformers used in order to identify the pope of Rome as the antichrist of Bible prophecy. It was because the Reformers were making this accurate identification of the man of sin that the Catholic Church purposely created erroneous schools of prophetic interpretation to undermine the ability of men to be clear about who and what is the antichrist.

In the Protestant world today you will find that one of their prophetic focuses concerning literal Jerusalem is connected with the time when the Jews of today will take control of the Dome of the Rock and once again start up sacrificial services. (They arrive at their conclusion by adopting the rules of prophetic interpretation invented by Roman Catholicism.) When it comes to the issue of the rebuilding of Jerusalem, the issue is the rebuilding of the temple. When Sister White states, “I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up” I have to trust that this is absolutely accurate. In my understanding then she is simply stating that the Jews of today will never rebuild the earthly sanctuary. They may attempt to do so, but then again Saddam Hussein attempted to rebuild the city of Babylon and his efforts were cut short. Not because of the war the USA brought against him, but because Bible prophecy said it would never be rebuilt. When Sister White says Jerusalem will never be built up we need to accept the light by faith, even if it does not agree with our human understanding. Bible prophecy is not built upon private interpretations.

I reject the conclusions of Marion Berry and the other similar teachers of the future application of the prophetic periods found in Daniel 12. You should reject their teachings as well. Marion Berry and others of similar ilk attempt to address the time-lines of Daniel 12 in one of two ways. They reapply them or present them as a future application. There is a distinction between these two approaches. Their claims in either case, are directly opposed to the Bible, the Spirit of Prophecy and the pioneers. Notice what Sister White says about Daniel 12: We Must Study Carefully The Old Waymarks “I have been deeply impressed by the Spirit of God that we are to pass through severe trials. Everyone’s faith will be tested. We must study carefully the old waymarks. These experiences in the past are to be revived. Daniel is to stand out conspicuously with the Revelation given to John on the Isle of Patmos.

Daniel 12. Read attentively this chapter. Hosea 4:1.

“Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel: for the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood. Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away. Yet let no man strive, nor reprove another: for thy people are as they that strive with the priest. Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother. My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.” Hosea 4:1–6.

“There is work to be done. Who will take it up?”

“In our experience in these last days we shall meet every conceivable thing that Satan can invent to make of none effect the established points of our faith that have been, in the providence of God, so greatly blessed. These foundation principles are to be held fast unto the end. Read the Word of God.” Manuscript Releases, vol. 22, 220.

What is the counsel in this passage? It is in reference to studying “The Old Waymarks.” It is about holding onto the “foundation principles.” It is a warning that Satan will attempt to remove “the established points of our faith that have been, in the providence of God, so greatly blessed.” This warning is about God’s “controversy” with His people, and the “controversy” is because His people have “rejected knowledge”. The problem addressed in the passage is not about refusing “new light”—it is about rejecting “old light”. And the focus of the warning is set within Daniel chapter 12.

Those who place the time prophecies of Daniel 12, at the end of the world are removing the old waymarks, attacking the foundation principles, and seeking to make of none effect—the established points of our faith. This is the work Marion Berry and others are doing!

There are basically two approaches used by those who attempt to apply the timelines of Daniel 12 at the end of the world. Each premise has its own peculiar characteristics.

Number one is “reapplication”: To state that, “the pioneers were correct in their understanding of Daniel 12, but there is to be a second application to these time prophecies.”

Very few time setters truly attempt this approach. The reason is two-fold. First, if you truly accept the pioneer position, you recognize, as the pioneers did, that the prophetic periods of Daniel 12 are not subject to reapplication. The second reason this approach would be difficult is in the Biblical rules associated with a true repetition of history or prophecy. We have been instructed that histories and prophecies may repeat, but in so doing all the characteristics of the first fulfillment must be duplicated figuratively, sequentially and mathematically in the second fulfillment.

If you uphold the pioneer position on the timelines in Daniel 12 and then reapply them at the end of the world—they must start at the same figurative point in time in relationship to one another, as was identified in the first fulfillment. The relationships of the truths contained in the timelines would also need to correspond to one another. In William Miller’s Rules of Prophetic Interpretation [Future for America has these rules available.] he states it this way in rule 13:

“To know whether we have the true historical event for the fulfillment of a prophecy. If you find every word of the prophecy (after the figures are understood) is literally fulfilled, then you may know that your history is the true event. But if one word lacks a fulfillment, then you must look for another event, or wait its future development. For God takes care that history and prophecy doth agree, so that the true believing children of God may never be ashamed.”

As an example, the pioneers understood that the 1290 and the 1335 started in A.D. 508 The 1260 started in A.D. 538. The 1260 and the 1290 ended together in 1798, while the 1335 ended in 1843. Marion Berry’s material changes this sequence. She starts the 1335 alone, then 75 days later she begins the 1260 and 1290 together. This has the 1335 and the 1260 ending at the same time and the 1290 ending 30 days later. Her discrepancies rule out a “reapplication”. She also changes the figurative meanings of the terms involved. This is one example why she takes the “future application” approach, instead of the “reapplication” approach when addressing Daniel 12.

Number two is “future application”: To state that, “the pioneers (including Ellen White, though usually not openly stated) were wrong about Daniel 12.” (Of course, those who take this approach try to demonstrate the pioneers and Ellen White were wrong in such a way as to make it appear as if they still uphold the pioneers and Ellen White.)

The 1843 Chart Ellen White upheld the pioneer position on Daniel 12, and all one needs to do in order to ascertain the pioneer position on Daniel 12 is simply study the 1843 pioneer chart. [Future for America has these charts available in English, Spanish, and soon in Russian.] All three timelines of Daniel 12 are represented on the chart. Marion Berry spends a great deal of time and effort to destroy the integrity of the information on the 1843 chart. In fact, it is obvious when your read her material that if the information about the timelines of Daniel 12 represented on the 1843 chart is accurate, then her ideas are erroneous. Her attack on the 1843 chart is primarily built around three items, though there are several interconnected points beyond these three.

One of the three points of her attack on the chart is to first point out that there are errors in the chart, (and there are errors) then, state that the information about the timelines of Daniel 12 on the chart were some of those errors.

Another point of attack is the pioneer understanding of what the “daily” in the book of Daniel symbolized. She attacks this point by saying she agrees with the pioneer understanding, but then amazingly, she defines the pioneer position on the “daily” differently than they believed. I believe this technique is effective, because very few in Adventism understand the pioneer position on the “daily”. Generally, even if they know the pioneer definition of the “daily”, they do not recognize the strength of the pioneer position. Satan does. This is why the “daily” is the most controversial and wrongly understood item of Adventist prophetic understanding.

A further attack on the 1843 chart is a second profound misrepresentation. She insists that pioneers arrived at the year A.D. 508 as the fulfillment of the “daily” by first calculating the 2300 day prophecy incorrectly, as the pioneers initially did. They initially arrived with the year 1843 as the fulfillment of Daniel 8:14. She then states that based upon the wrong date of 1843 Miller simply subtracted 1335 from that date and arrived at A.D. 508. He then began a search for some historic event that he could use to prop up his random choice of the year 508. Her representation on this subject is as inaccurate as her teaching that the pioneers believed as she does concerning the “daily”.

Point One –The Errors

Concerning the 1843 chart, we are told in Early Writings 74:

“I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.”

Identifying the timelines of Daniel 12 on the 1843 pioneer chart as erroneous is an important point as Marion Berry presents her fallacies. She writes,

“An inspired prophet declared that on that chart [1843] there ‘was a mistake in some figures.’ The big mistake was the date 1843. Jesus did not come in 1843. From that wrong date, William Miller subtracted 1335, taken from Daniel 12:12 timeline, given the date A.D. 508. Almost any third grader knows that if you subtract from a wrong figure, your answer will be wrong! Nevertheless, many theologians today have made no corrections and defend the past application, based on wrong data, as if it were sacred doctrine of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.” A Declaration of Facts Regarding Contemporary Prophetic Exposition, and The Three Timelines of Daniel 12, page 1, Marion Berry.

The mistaken figures in the 1843 chart were as follows: identifying 1843 as the conclusion of the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14; 158 B.C. instead of 161 B.C. as date of league between Jews and Romans; 606 as date for rise of Mohammedanism; minor discrepancies in the dates for certain of the time periods associated with the ten horns of Daniel 7; and 677 B.C. as starting point of the “seven times” of Daniel 5. There were no mistakes in the figures concerning the prophetic periods of Daniel 12. Marion Berry may teach there were mistakes in the timelines of Daniel 12 on the 1843 chart, but the pioneers and Sister White did not believe so.

In the previous statement Marion Berry may be uninformed—but she is bearing false witness and it is totally inexcusable. When you place yourself in a public position through the publication of your ideas, and at the same time lift up and promote your understanding as the correct position in contrast to other positions, it then becomes your moral and ethical responsibility to correctly reflect the positions you are opposing. Several areas of Marion Berry’s material are purely false. They totally misrepresent the true positions of the pioneers. Her last statement is one example.

There are no errors connected with the time lines of Daniel 12 on the chart. A proof of this is established by comparing the 1843 pioneer chart with the 1851 pioneer chart.

The 1851 chart was produced based on the very same vision where God commanded James White to begin the Review and Herald magazine. In the vision where Sister White was told to instruct James White to begin the Review, she also was given instruction to tell him to print a new chart. Otis Nichols printed this chart in 1851. This chart contains the pioneer understanding of 508, as the starting point for Daniel 12:11–12. There are five vertical columns on the chart.

The first column identifies 1843 with the second angel’s message.

The second column provides information about pagan and papal Rome (among other items) and in so doing states, “The pope’s dominion over the kings continued 1260 years. France took it away in A.D. 1798, just 1290 years after paganism lost its civil power. Daniel 12:7, 11.”

The third column states, “The daily taken away. Daniel 11:31. 508 A.D.” The fifth column states, “From the daily taken away, to papacy set up—538 = 30 years.”

Both charts uphold the year 508 as the historical fulfillment of the “daily” being taken away, and therefore 508 as the starting point for the timelines in Daniel 12:11–12. The pioneers and Ellen White never changed their position on the timelines of Daniel 12.

The Truth Must be Made Plain Upon Tables

“On our return to Brother Nichols’, the Lord gave me a vision and showed me that the truth must be made plain upon tables, and it would cause many to decide for the truth by the three angels’ messages, with two former being made plain upon tables.” Manuscript Releases, number 16, 207.

If the 1843 or 1851 charts demonstrate any repetition concerning the 1290 and 1335 of Daniel 12:11–12, it is that both charts repeat the pioneer position of identifying the year 508 as the starting point for the timelines contained in those verses. This means the 1290 concluded in 1798 and the 1335 concludes in 1843! That is the pioneer position, which is also upheld in the Review and Herald article at the end of this newsletter.

Point Two-The “Daily”

Throughout her many publications Marion Berry also falsely portrays the pioneer understanding of the “daily”. Much of her falsehoods are built upon her erroneous position about the “daily”. William Miller identifies the pioneer understanding of the “daily” as follows:

‘The Daily’ Must mean Paganism

“I read on, and could find no other case in which if [the daily] was found but in Daniel. I then [by the aid of a concordance] took those words which stood in connection with it, ‘take away;’ ‘he shall take away the daily’; ‘from the time that the daily shall be taken away.’ I read on and thought I should find no light on the text. Finally I came to 2 Thessalonians 2:7–8, ‘For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way, and then shall that wicked be revealed.’ And when I had come to that text, O, how clear and glorious the truth appeared! There it is! That is ‘the daily!’ Well, now, what does Paul mean by ‘he who now letteth’ or hindereth? By ‘the Man of Sin,’ and the ‘wicked,’ Popery is meant. Well what is it which hinders Popery from being revealed? Why it is Paganism. Well, then, ‘the daily’ must mean Paganism.” Advent Manual, page 66, William Miller.

Marion Berry teaches the pioneer position was something other than paganism: “The ‘Daily’ is a Continuum of Power, Seat, and Authority or ‘Sovereignty.’”

In a unique sense, as used in the book of Daniel, the ‘daily’ refers to a continuum of power, seat, and authority in the rise and fall of empires. Power, seat, and authority is the power to rule which originates with God on His throne, and is from everlasting to everlasting.” Updated Condensation of WARNING!, page 50, Marion Berry.

Marion Berry’s definition of the “daily” is different than William Millers. But, Ellen White identified that William Miller and the pioneers had the “correct view”. In Adventism today there is a third view, which is by far, the most widely accepted, but it also is incorrect. To deal with that subject is outside the scope of this letter, but Marion Berry also recognizes that the mainline view of the “daily” is false, and is not the view the pioneer’s possessed. Confusion magnifies when Marion Berry opposes the false mainline view, but then teaches that her view is—the pioneer view!

“Modern theologians interpret the word ‘daily’ as used in the book of Daniel to refer to the priesthood of Christ. They refer to this concept as being the ‘new view.’ However, this is the ‘old view’ which was used for many centuries until the Bible students of The Great Advent Movement, leading up to 1844, abandoned that view and declared the ‘daily’ to refer to the transfer of ‘power, seat, and authority’ from pagan to papal Rome. That view of the ‘daily’ by the pioneers was proclaimed to be ‘the correct view’ by the inspired prophet. (See Early Writings, 74–75) However that correct view was abandoned after 1844. A Declaration of Facts Regarding Contemporary Prophetic Exposition, and The Three Timelines of Daniel 12, page 3–4, Marion Berry.

Evidently Marion Berry does not have a way in which she feels comfortable in trying to cast an interpretation on Ellen White’s sound endorsement of William Miller’s definition of the “daily” in the book of Daniel. She therefore uses a different approach than reinterpreting Ellen White’s words. She admits the pioneers were correct on the “daily” and even uses Ellen White’s endorsement of the pioneer view to make the point. Then disregarding all the historical evidence to the contrary, she proclaims that her definition of the “daily” is the pioneer definition of the “daily”. If you don’t test her claims—you may even believe her.

The correct view of William Miller was “Paganism.” Marion Berry’s is “a continuum of power, seat, and authority in the rise and fall of empires.” A transfer of power from one kingdom to the next is not the definition that Mr. Webster gives for the word “paganism.” In Webster’s Dictionary of 1828, the time period of William Miller, the word paganism is defined as—Heathenism; the worship of false gods, or the system of religious opinions and worship maintained by pagans.

Point Three-Calculating With Incorrect Information

William Miller did not reach his conclusion of the 1335 days ending in 1843 by subtraction. He projected forward 1335 years from the date he had recognized as the fulfillment of the “daily”. That date was 508 B.C.

Not Sacred Doctrines

In a previously cited passage of Marion Berry, and in other of her publications, she denies that the pioneer positions on the prophetic periods in Daniel 12 are—“sacred doctrine”. This is consistent with her opinion that the pioneers were wrong about the timelines in Daniel 12, yet in the very first quotation from Ellen White in this letter, we see the Spirit of Prophecy addressing the prophetic periods in Daniel 12 as the foundations, the waymarks, the established points of faith. Through dreams and visions Sister White was warned that the waymarks and foundations would be attacked as time progressed. She also identified that they needed to be defended. To associate the word “sacred” with the truths of Daniel 12 is totally consistent with emphasis placed upon them in the writings of the Spirit of Prophecy!

“I have not been able to sleep since half past one o’clock. I was bearing to Brother T a message which the Lord had given me for him. The peculiar views he holds are a mixture of truth and error. If he had passed through the experiences of God’s people as He has led them for the past forty years, he would be better prepared to make the correct application of Scripture. The great waymarks of truth, showing us our bearings in prophetic history, are to be carefully guarded, lest they be torn down, and replaced with theories that would bring confusion rather than genuine light. I have been cited to the very erroneous theories that have been presented over and over again. Those who advocated these theories presented Scripture quotations, but they misapplied and misinterpreted them. The theories supposed to be correct were incorrect, and yet many thought them the very theories to be brought before the people. The prophecies of Daniel and John are to be diligently studied.

“There are those now living who, in studying the prophecies of Daniel and John, received great light from God as they passed over the ground where special prophecies were in process of fulfillment in their order. They bore the message of time to the people. The truth shone out clearly as the sun at noonday. Historical events, showing the direct fulfillment of prophecy, were set before the people, and the prophecy was seen to be a figurative delineation of events leading down to the close of this earth’s history. The scenes connected with the working of the man of sin are the last features plainly revealed in this earth’s history. The people now have a special message to give to the world, the third angel’s message. Those who, in their experience, have passed over the ground, and acted a part in the proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages, are not so liable to be led into false paths as are those who have not had an experimental knowledge of the people of God.” Selected Messages, book 2, 102.

Because of the abundant counsel similar to the previous passage concerning the “tearing down” of “the great waymarks” Marion Berry develops (through down playing the pioneer understanding of the timelines in Daniel 12) a multi-facetted attack designed to allow her to move the timelines of Daniel 12 to another location in history, without appearing to be under the condemnation of the dreams and visions that warn about the attempts to move the landmarks. The approach consists of an attempt to remove confidence in the original pioneer position on prophecy, but also by creating an end-of-the-world category for the timelines of Daniel 12 as opposed to the 1844 time period category for the other timelines in the book of Daniel.

Manufacturing A Distinction Between Prophetic Periods 

An example of one of her attempts to isolate the timelines of Daniel 12 from the other prophetic periods in Daniel is found in her argument about literal and symbolic time. Of course she must establish literal time at the end of the world, for there isn’t enough time left for these prophecies to be fulfilled in a day for a year fashion. But her argument over literal and symbolic time also helps her manufacture a distinction between the prophetic periods of Daniel 12 and the other prophetic periods of Daniel’s record. Marion Berry emphasizes and lifts up a Biblical rule in an attempt to disavow the year-day principle.

“They [Speaking of modern theologians] ignore the literal language of Daniel 12, in which there are no symbols such as image, beast, heads, horns, eyes, and sea. They ignore this literal context, take the three timelines of Daniel 12 out of their literal setting, and arbitrarily impose a symbolic meaning.” “In regard to Daniel 12 timelines, they misapply the Year-Day Principle. Literal language is never to be interpreted.” Emphasis in the original. A Declaration of Facts Regarding Contemporary Prophetic Exposition, and The Three Timelines of Daniel 12, page 1&2, Marion Berry.

“No symbols such as image, beast, heads, horns, eyes, and sea.” —Smoke and mirrors—… The time prophecies in Daniel 12:7, 11–12, are directly associated with the “daily” and the “abomination that maketh desolate.” And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Daniel 12:11–12.

Are we now to understand that the “daily” and the “abomination that maketh desolate” are not symbolic terms? Daniel employs these terms to symbolize pagan and papal Rome! He represents these two powers with the symbolic terms: “daily” and “abomination that maketh desolate.” These are definitely symbolic terms. What kind of deception is it to quote a rule as authoritative; then not apply the rule, because it undermines your interpretation; and then act as if you have established your point? The pioneers understood it as follows:

“From the time that the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the thousand three hundred five and thirty days. With the facts before us that the daily is Paganism, that the abomination that maketh desolate is the Papacy, that there was a change from the former to the latter in the Roman power, and by the authority of State we have but to inquire further when this took place in a manner to fulfill the prophecy; for if we can ascertain this, we have the starting point from which the prophetic periods in the text before us are to be dated.” Review and Herald, January 28, 1858.

According to the rule pointed out and magnified by Marion Berry, the fact that these two symbols are in the passage under consideration—the student should look for a symbolic application of the passage. That would be a day for a year, not a day for a day. Marion Berry and others: Emphasize the rule—to create a diversion—in order to discard the rule—and then accuse those who oppose their false conclusions of not upholding the rule!

If one possibly concludes that the “daily” and “abomination that maketh desolate” of Daniel 12 are somehow different than when they are used by Daniel in chapters 8 and 11—where is the evidence for this conclusion? Why would Daniel use symbolic words in Daniel 8 and 11, and continue to use those very same terms in Daniel 12, if the same terms in Daniel 12 were to identify something different than when found in Daniel 8 and 11? But, if they are the same symbolic words throughout the book of Daniel, [and they are] then why doesn’t Marion Berry apply them as symbolic in Daniel 12? Once again—the pioneers did:

“The true reading is, ‘the daily and the transgression of desolation;’ daily and transgression being connected together by ‘and;’ the daily and the transgression of desolation. They are two desolating powers which were to desolate the Sanctuary and the host.” Josiah Litch, Review and Herald, January, 1858.

When & Where The Prophecies Conclude

Another approach she attempts in order to isolate the timelines of Daniel 12 from Daniel’s other prophecies is selectively amplifying when prophecies conclude.

Remember, according to Manuscript Releases, vol. 22, 220. The “prophetic periods” of Daniel 12, are the “foundations principles”, the “old waymarks”, and the “established points of faith”. Marion Berry attempts to make a distinction between which prophetic periods qualify as the foundations. After all, if the timelines of Daniel 12 are fulfilled at the end of the world, then they are not foundational. Confronted with several passages such as the Manuscript Releases quotation, she is forced to isolate and magnify some passages from the Spirit of Prophecy, while ignoring others. This allows her to demonstrate her hypothesis that the prophetic periods contained in the 2300 day prophecy are the focus of the inspired warnings concerning the removing or the attack against the foundations, waymarks, and established points of faith. Notice the following:

“The preaching of a definite time for the judgment, in the giving of the first message, was ordered by God. The computation of the prophetic periods on which that message was based, placing the close of the 2300 days in the autumn of 1844, stands without impeachment. The repeated efforts to find new dates for the beginning and close of the prophetic periods, and the unsound reasoning necessary to sustain these positions, not only lead minds away from the present truth, but throw contempt upon all efforts to explain the prophecies. The more frequently a definite time is set for the second advent, and the more widely it is taught, the better it suits the purposes of Satan. After the time has passed, he excites ridicule and contempt of its advocates, and thus casts reproach upon the great advent movement of 1843 and 1844. Those who persist in this error will at last fix upon a date too far in the future for the coming of Christ. Thus they will be led to rest in a false security, and many will not be undeceived until it is too late.’ The Great Controversy, 457.

“It is self evident that the above quotation had to do with the timelines of Daniel 8, and 9, but not 12. It did not pertain to any other timeline prophecy.” Emphasis supplied. Date Setting, Time Setting, Futurism, and Dirty Theology, page 58–59, Marion Berry.

Here we are left to believe that when Sister White counseled us in Manuscript Releases “to hold fast to the end” the “waymarks” and “foundations” in “Daniel chapter 12”, that somehow The Great Controversy, 457 eliminates that command. Marion Berry’s uses that statement to set up a false premise, that only the prophetic periods within the 2300 day prophecy would be subjected to “the repeated efforts to find new dates for the beginning and close of the prophetic periods.” She uses this to magnify her false supposition that the timelines of Daniel 12 are only applicable to the end of the world. Even if there were no passages such as the one in Manuscript Releases, the evidence and support for the commentary she draws on the passage from The Great Controversy does not exist within the statement itself. Everything Sister White said in the passage is accurate, but she made no comment whatsoever about Daniel 12! The fifth rule in William Miller’s Rules for Prophetic Interpretation reads as follows:

“Scripture must be—its own expositor, since it is a rule of itself. If I depend on a teacher to expound it to me and he should, guess at its meaning, or desire to have it so on account of his sectarian creed or to be thought wise, then his guessing, desire, creed or wisdom is my rule, not the Bible.”

This rule obviously applies to the Spirit of Prophecy as well.

The end of the world is an important emphasis for Marion Berry’s prophetic interpretations. She uses this theme to establish a principle that the time prophecies Daniel 8 and 9 were fulfilled in the Millerite time period, while the Daniel 12 prophecies were for the Second Coming of Christ.

“Prophetic Periods” in the Context of “the Eve of the Great Consummation”

“Ellen G. White either contradicted herself or she used the term, ‘prophetic periods,’ if reference to two different situations. While she was declaring that the ‘prophetic periods’ of the 2300 timeline of Daniel 8 and 9 ended in 1844, she wrote of other ‘prophetic periods’ or timelines in the book of Daniel, which would extend to the eve of the great consummation!

“The prophetic periods [timelines] of Daniel [12], extending to the very eve of the great consummation [The Second Coming] throw a flood of light on events then to transpire.” Review and Herald, September 15, 1883. Emphasis in the original. Date Setting, Time Setting, Futurism, and Dirty Theology, page 58–59, Marion Berry. The complete passage reads:

“In the Scriptures are presented truths that relate especially to our own time. To the period just prior to the appearing of the Son of man, the prophecies of Scripture point, and here their warnings and threatening preeminently apply. The prophetic periods of Daniel, extending to the very eve of the great consummation, throw a flood of light upon events then to transpire. The book of Revelation is also replete with warning and instruction for the last generation. The beloved John, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, portrays the fearful and thrilling scenes connected with the close of earth’s history, and presents the duties and dangers of God’s people. None need remain in ignorance, none need be unprepared for the coming of the day of God.” Review and Herald, September 15, 1883.

The information in this passage does not uphold the wresting placed upon it by Marion Berry. In the passage the prophetic periods addressed are those found in Daniel, Revelation and the entire Scriptures—not exclusively the timelines of Daniel 12! This is a general statement about prophetic periods. Yet Marion Berry adds her own words into the passage to make the prophetic periods under discussion exclusively the timelines of Daniel 12. She continues:

“The ‘prophetic periods’ (2300 day-years, 490 years, 482 years, seven years, etc.) of Daniel 8 and 9, all of which were ended by 1844, did not extend to the ‘very eve of the great consummation’ nor did they ‘throw a flood of light on events then to transpire.’ Neither did the 1260 timeline of Daniel 7 reach to ‘the very eve of the great consummation,’ but ended in 1798—over two centuries ago! It is therefore the 1260, 1290, and 1335, three literal day timelines of Daniel 12, which extend to the very eve or ‘end’ [utmost end], and it is these three timelines which “throw a flood of light on EVENTS then to transpire, but give no date for the second coming.” Date Setting, Time Setting, Futurism, and Dirty Theology, page 59, Marion Berry.

Once again, selective deduction is employed by Marion Berry. Ellen White points to the judgment as the place where the prophecies reach their conclusions, but Marion Berry is seeking to develop a different emphasis than Ellen White:

“The prophecies present a succession of events leading down to the opening of the Judgment. This is especially true of the book of Daniel. But that part of his prophecy which related to the last days, Daniel was bidden to close up and seal ‘to the time of the end.’ Not till we reach this time could a message concerning the Judgment be proclaimed, based on a fulfillment of these prophecies. But at the time of the end, says the prophet, ‘many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.”’ The Great Controversy, 356.

In this passage the prophecies, especially those of Daniel, lead down to the opening of the judgment, not the Second Coming. So is Sister White contradicting herself? Absolutely not!

“Had Adventists, after the great disappointment in 1844, held fast their faith, and followed on united in the opening providence of God, receiving the message of the third angel and in the power of the Holy Spirit proclaiming it to the world, they would have seen the salvation of God, the Lord would have wrought mightily with their efforts, the work would have been completed, and Christ would have come ere this to receive His people to their reward.” Selected Messages, book 1, 68.

Had Adventism finished the work in the days of the pioneers the judgment and the Second Coming of Christ would have been very closely related in terms of time. Our disobedience has extended the time, but this “wandering in the wilderness of unbelief” does not diminish the close relationship between the judgment and the Second Coming. Ellen White is not being inconsistent when she identifies the prophecies concluding at the judgment in one place and then states the prophecies reach to the Second Coming in another. They are closely related. The inconsistency lies with Marion Berry as she exclusively emphasizes the Second Coming as the consummation of the prophecies, in order to provide an avenue to sustain her own private interpretations.

Sister White says the prophecies lead “down to the opening of the Judgment”. In doing so, she focuses primarily on the prophecies of Daniel. But if we were to be even more discerning about the passage, she is focusing more on one chapter in the book of Daniel, and that chapter is Daniel 12. She quotes directly from Daniel 12 twice in the passage and no other Scripture is quoted.

By context Sister White is teaching that the prophecies of Daniel 12 lead “down to the opening of the Judgment”!

Whether lifting up the “literal symbolic rule” to draw a distinction, or trying to develop a case for certain specific time prophecies to extend to the second coming, Marion Berry’s reasoning and application lacks any logical or divine endorsement. Within all of these false premises, which we are addressing, there have been several other errors that we have not taken up do to the limitations of this newsletter. But one other false teaching connected with the Second Coming needs to be also met.

In Marion Berry’s emphasis of the Second Coming she goes to great lengths to identify that her applications of the time prophecies of Daniel 12 do not reach the conclusion of the day and hour of Christ’s return. If she were to do that, the warning flag would be too great for many of her devotees to pass by. As she emphasizes that she doesn’t predict the day and hour of Christ’s return, though she is curiously silent about a specific passage in the Spirit of Prophecy.

Or Any Promise Of Special Significance

“Let all our brethren and sisters beware of anyone who would set a time for the Lord to fulfill His word in regard to His coming, or in regard to any other promise He has made of special significance. ‘It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in His own power.’” Testimonies to Ministers, 55. [This reference is included in an article from The Firm Foundation magazine, page 36, in Marion Berry’s book titled, Date Setting, Time Setting, Futurism, and Dirty Theology.]

In spite of this previous passage, Marion Berry’s application of the 1335 days at the end of the world teaches that when the 1335 day prophecy arrives in history, there will be a special blessing associated with it. This blessing of course is part of the prediction of Daniel 12:12. The blessing that Marion Berry identifies is that on this day, (the 1335 day since the Sunday law) God will pronounce the day and hour of Christ’s return to His faithful people:

“Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.” Daniel 12:12.

“What is the ‘Blessing’ for which God’s people wait?

The Voice of God is heard from heaven, declaring the day and hour of Jesus coming, and delivering the everlasting covenant to His people…And when the BLESSING is pronounced on those who have honored God by keeping His Sabbath holy, there is a mighty shout of victory.” The Great Controversy, 640.

“The declaration of the everlasting covenant by the Voice of God is the blessing for which they wait, because, like the reading of a will, it tells what God’s people will get.” Emphasis in the original. Updated Condensation of WARNING! Page 74-75, Marion Berry.

What did Sister White say? “Beware of anyone who would set a time in regard to any promise He has made of special significance.” Is the pronouncement of the everlasting covenant and the day and hour of Christ’s return of special significance? Beware!

If you are questioning my motives and purposes in specifically addressing the teachings of Marion Berry, Be assured that there are several variations of Marion Berry’s fallacies in Adventism today and those various interpretations seem to borrow each other’s flawed reasoning. But the question may still remain—why such a specific attack on her ideas? Consider the complete paragraph just cited from Testimonies to Ministers, 55:

“Let all our brethren and sisters beware of anyone who would set a time for the Lord to fulfill His word in regard to His coming, or in regard to any other promise He has made of special significance. ‘It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in His own power.’ False teachers may appear to be very zealous for the work of God, and may expend means to bring their theories before the world and the church; but as they mingle error with truth, their message is one of deception, and will lead souls into false paths. They are to be met and opposed, not because they are bad men, but because they are teachers of falsehood and are endeavoring to put upon falsehood the stamp of truth.”

But how serious could a falsehood such as Marion Berry’s be? Let me answer that by first suggesting that the primary reason the Jews rejected and crucified Christ was from a misunderstanding of prophecy:

There Are Persons Ready To Catch Up Every New Idea

“Satan is working that the history of the Jewish nation may be repeated in the experience of those who claim to believe present truth. The Jews had the Old Testament Scriptures, and supposed themselves conversant with them. But they made a woeful mistake. The prophecies that refer to the glorious second appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven they regarded as referring to His first coming. Because He did not come according to their expectations, they turned away from Him. Satan knew just how to take these men in his net, and deceive and destroy them…

“The very same Satan is at work to undermine the faith of the people of God at this time. There are persons ready to catch up every new idea. The prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation are misinterpreted. These persons do not consider that the truth has been set forth at the appointed time by the very men whom God was leading to do this special work. These men followed on step by step in the very fulfillment of prophecy, and those who have not had a personal experience in this work, are to take the Word of God and believe on ‘their word’ who have been led by the Lord in the proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages. These messages, received and acted upon, are doing their work to prepare a people to stand in the great day of God. If we search the Scriptures to confirm the truth God has given His servants for the world, we shall be found proclaiming the first, second, and third angels’ messages.

“It is true that there are prophecies yet to be fulfilled. But very erroneous work has been done again and again, and will continue to be done by those who seek to find new light in the prophecies, and who begin by turning away from the light that God has already given. The messages of Revelation 14 are those by which the world is to be tested; they are the everlasting gospel, and are to be sounded everywhere. But the Lord does not lay upon those who have not had an experience in His work the burden of making a new exposition of those prophecies which He has, by His Holy Spirit, moved upon His chosen servants to explain.” Selected Messages, book 2, 110-113.

So Satan is attempting to repeat the misunderstanding of prophecy that took place among the Jews within “those who claim to believe present truth” within the Adventist church. More specifically Satan will accomplish this by leading men to “catch up new ideas” without considering that “the truth has been set forth at the appointed time by the very men whom God was leading.” Not only do they not consider the truth set forth by these appointed men, but they will be seeking to find “new light” and “begin” their search “by turning away from the light that God has already given.” Specifically these deluded souls will have a burden to make a “new exposition of those prophecies which He has moved upon His chosen servants to explain.” All of this will take place instead of following the counsel within the passage that identifies our responsibility to “take the Word of God and believe on ‘their word’ who have been led by the Lord in the proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages”. Did she really say that we were to believe the word of the pioneers? But doesn’t Marion Berry expose their errors and redefine their conclusions?

“There must be no long discussions, presenting new theories in regard to the prophecies which God has already made plain.” Evangelism, 199

The prophetic parallel to the rejection of Christ by the Jews is even more specifically identified than the previous passage. It is not simply to reject the conclusions of the pioneers or to seek for new light in prophecies that have already been established. It is a specific type of prophetic study that is taken up by those who would follow in the footsteps of ancient Israel:

“In our day as in Christ’s day, there may be a misreading and misinterpreting of the Scriptures. If the Jews had studied the Scriptures with earnest, prayerful hearts, their searching would have been rewarded with a true knowledge of the time, and not only the time, but also the manner of Christ’s appearing. They would not have ascribed the glorious second appearing of Christ to His first advent. They had the testimony of Daniel; they had the testimony of Isaiah and the other prophets; they had the teachings of Moses; and here was Christ in their very midst, and still they were searching the Scriptures for evidence in regard to His coming. And they were doing unto Christ the very things that had been prophesied they would do. They were so blinded they knew not what they were doing.

“And many are doing the same thing today, in 1897 [2002], because they have not had experience in the testing messages comprehended in the first, second, and third angel’s messages. There are those who are searching the Scriptures for proof that these messages are still in the future. They gather together the truthfulness of the messages, but they fail to give them their proper place in prophetic history. Therefore such are in danger of misleading the people in regard to locating the messages. They do not see and understand the time of the end, or when to locate the messages.” Evangelism, 613.

Did that passage impact you? Prophetically, the strong delusion Adventists receive as they parallel the rejection and crucifixion of Christ, will take place among those who “are searching the Scriptures for proof that” “messages are still in the future. They” will “fail to give them their proper place in prophetic history.” “Such” people “are in danger of misleading” “people in regard to locating the messages. They do not see and understand the time of the end, or when to locate the messages.” How many people do you know who applying the 2300 days at the end of the world? Remember, this deception takes place with those who “claim to believe present truth”. How many people professing to believe present truth are reapplying the time prophecies of Daniel 8? Must be some other prophetic periods that are pointed out in the warnings, don’t you think?

When we address prophetic ideas such as Marion Berry’s, we are under conviction that the ideas are as dangerous as someone misunderstanding whom the Messiah was—in the days when Jesus walked among men. The seriousness of this type of false application of prophecy is generally not recognized. The Messiah was generally not recognized. Yet we still stand amazed at the blindness in the Jewish response to Jesus when he walked among them. How could they not see?

“When Christ came to the world, his own nation rejected him. He brought from heaven the message of salvation, hope, freedom, and peace; but men would not accept his good tidings. Christians have condemned the Jewish nation for rejecting the Saviour; but many who profess to be followers of Christ are doing even worse than did the Jews, for they are rejecting greater light in despising the truth for this time.” Review and Herald, November 5, 1889

We are in a time period paralleling the days when Christ was upon earth and we have been warned that as Seventh-day Adventists, some of us will repeat the rejection and crucifixion of Christ by turning away from truth that was established by the pioneers concerning the prophetic periods which were proclaimed during the Millerite time period. Those who fulfill this dreadful prediction will not simply turn away from the pioneer positions, they will also seek to place the prophetic fulfillments identified by the pioneers somewhere in the future. In May of 1998 I received a letter from Marion Berry. This is some of the counsel for me:

“You also need to do a computer search and/or investigate all Ellen G. White’s comments in regard to dual applications. You will soon discover that in her earlier years she supported fully the pioneers past applications, but as she passed the 1888 milestone, her statements began to apply the last chapter of Daniel to the future and much that in Revelation had been understood to have occurred in the past is to have another fulfillment…

“I wish we could get together and talk before you set your course and do great damage to present truth all over the world. You started out so well with Daniel 11. What happened? What changed your attitudes? Do you not understand that the three timelines of Daniel 12 simply explain that God’s people will once again be persecuted by 2nd Papal Supremacy and that it will last only 1290 days and that God’s people will wait it out until they are delivered from the Death Decree of Revelation 13:15? It is just Revelation 13 reiterated, and Great Controversy repeated in detail. No dates are set. “Sincerely, Marion Berry” Letter, dated April 25, 1998.

If I may paraphrase some of these statements:

My paraphrase: You need to “search the Scriptures” and the Spirit of Prophecy “for proof that these messages are still in the future”.

(Based upon: You also need to do a computer search and/or investigate all Ellen G. White’s comments in regard to dual applications.)

My paraphrase: You need to turn “away from the light that God has already given by the men whom God was leading in the proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages.”

(Based upon: You will soon discover that in her earlier years she supported fully the pioneers past applications, but as she passed the 1888 milestone, her statements began to apply the last chapter of Daniel to the future”.

My paraphrase: You need to stop “search[ing] the Scriptures to confirm the truth God has given His servants for the world.”

(Based upon: “You started out so well with Daniel 11. What happened? What changed your attitudes? Do you not understand that the three timelines of Daniel 12 simply explain…”)

“Again and again have I been warned in regard to time setting. There will never again be a message for the people of God that will be based on time.” Selected Messages, book 1, 188

A Warning We Need To Understand

Those who promote false ideas invariably twist the Spirit of Prophecy to meet their own ideas. A classic example of this is illustrated in the quotation from Manuscript Releases, vol. 15, 228– 229. The entire quotation is on the front cover of this newsletter. Those who seek to reapply Daniel 12, pull a couple sentences out of this passage to isolate and magnify: “Let us read and study the twelfth chapter of Daniel. It is a warning that we shall all need to understand before the time of the end.” These sentences are used by Marion Berry in her manuscript titled, Warning. She uses this passage to twist the warning in Daniel 12 from the importance of character development into the need to believe in the future fulfillment of the prophetic periods in Daniel 12 that came to pass in the Millerite time period.

But when you study the entire passage thoroughly, you recognize the true warning of Daniel 12. This same warning was addressed in our December newsletter, in the article by James White about the “time of the end.” Ellen and James White both recognized the warning of Daniel 12 to be a warning to be among those who shine as the stars of heaven and lead many to righteousness. In the opening paragraph of this passage Sister White speaks about “the unprepared condition of our churches” and our need to “keep our feet in the straight and narrow path” while warning us to “make no missteps now”. She points to “the first and second chapters of Colossians as an expression of what our churches should be.” She then speaks of Paul not being able to share his complete message because the church members would have “made a misapplication of the great truths” he shared. The first paragraph contains a warning, which includes misapplication of truth and the possibility of leaving the path of truth. But what is it in the first two chapters Colossians that is of importance? Isn’t it summed up in chapter 1 verses 26 through 28?

Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

The mystery of Godliness—the hope of Glory, is the warning we are to share with every man. It is a warning that those in the Laodicean church need to accept. This is the warning in the first paragraph of the passage!

The warning in paragraph two, which is where Marion Berry lifts her sentences about Daniel 12 out of, opens with the summary of the entire paragraph. “The people of God need to study what characters they must form in order to pass through the test and proving of the last days.” This is the same emphasis as in the first paragraph. So. Are the timelines of Daniel 12 somehow a warning about character sanctification? In Marion Berry’s letter above she said the timelines of Daniel 12 were to “simply explain that God’s people will once again be persecuted by 2nd Papal Supremacy and that it will last only 1290 days and that God’s people will wait it out until the are delivered from the Death Decree of Revelation 13:15? It is just Revelation 13 reiterated, and Great Controversy repeated in detail. No dates are set.” But is there other information in Daniel 12 that more accurately reflects the warning Sister White is emphasizing in her entire record? Oh yes! A very serious warning, but it is not about future application of previously fulfilled time prophecy:

And at that time shall Michael stand up, [Probation is closed!] the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: [During which you must have a character prepared to stand when there is no longer intercession available for sin!] and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. [Some will be delivered!] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. [Some will not be delivered. A solemn warning.]

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; [Here are those who heed the warning in Daniel 12 and shake off their Laodicean lethargy.] but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; [And here are those in Adventism (and those outside Adventism) who reject the warning of Daniel 12.] but the wise shall understand. [Do we understand the warning of Daniel 12?] Daniel 12:1–3, 10.

The warning we need to understand is not about time prophecy.

The third paragraph identifies a warning that is in perfect agreement with the previous paragraphs. “Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things”. No connection to a timeline warning. Is there?

Paragraph four emphasizes the wise and foolish virgins at the end of the world. Again we see the identical theme from the first word in paragraph one to the closing thought of the complete passage, “When the foolish virgins reached the banqueting hall, they received an unexpected denial. The master of the feast declared, ‘I know you not.’ They were left standing without in the empty street, in the blackness of the night. ”Once again, no connection to the timeline warning.

The warning in Daniel 12, which we need to understand before the time of the end, is a warning to be among the wise virgins, with our lights shining, leading many to righteousness, with Christ the hope of glory, in us. Yet Marion Berry and others would have you believe it is a warning to apply the timelines of Daniel 12 at the end of the world. Nonsense!

Marion Berry states that Sister White “supported fully the pioneers past applications, but as she passed the 1888 milestone, her statements began to apply the last chapter of Daniel to the future.” If Sister White changed her inspired position half way through her ministry she is a false prophet. If she identified truth at one point and later identified it as error her inspiration was not of the Lord:

“My Instructor said to me, tell these men that God has not committed to them the work of measuring, classifying, and defining the character of the Testimonies. Those who attempt this are sure to err in their conclusions…

“Those who carefully read the Testimonies as they have appeared from the early days, need not be perplexed as to their origin.” Selected Messages, book 1, 49.

Some might incorrectly say that this statement identifies that the early Testimonies were more important than the later. (There are those who do this very thing in Adventism today.) But what she is conveying is that from the beginning of her ministry to the very close of her ministry her message is consistent with itself. Marion Berry would have us believe that after 1888 her understanding on the timelines of Daniel 12 changed. How do we understand the next statement?

That Which Was From The Beginning

“John bore no uncertain message. ‘That which was from the beginning,’ he says, ‘which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the word of life (for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us); that which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.’ [Notice the Inspired emphasis on retaining that which was from the beginning.]

“We have, as had John, a message to bear of the things which we have seen and heard. God is not giving us a new message. We are to proclaim the message that in 1843 and 1844 brought us out of the other churches.” Review and Herald, January 19, 1905.

There are several passages, when correctly understood, all by themselves— expose Marion Berry’s philosophy as false. This last passage is one of them. Marion Berry does not deny that the information on the 1843 chart was what the pioneers were presenting prior to the Great Disappointment on October 22, 1844. So whether the pioneers were correct or incorrect, the message that brought the people out of the churches included the pioneer understanding of the timelines in Daniel 12. You can’t get away from that historical fact. Even if their presentation on Daniel 12 were later found to be erroneous, historically we know, that it was part of the Millerite message that “brought the people out of the churches”.

So we have some choices to make here. Do we accept Marion Berry’s commentary that after 1888 Sister White changed her position on the pioneer message of Daniel 12? If so, Sister White needs to clarify or retract this previous passage. Marion Berry states, “in her earlier years she supported fully the pioneers past applications, but as she passed the 1888 milestone, her statements began to apply the last chapter of Daniel to the future”. That pioneer message was definitely part of what brought people out of the churches and if we believe Marion Berry it was a false message. If we choose Marion Berry’s conclusions we identify that Ellen White counsels us to preach a message which contains error and that Sister White (at certain times) opposes her own Testimonies. To accept that reasoning means we end up with a false prophet!

By the way, notice the date that Sister White wrote this previous statement. 1905 is well after 1888. Perhaps, Sister White forgot that she no longer believed the pioneer message on Daniel 12. As I said to open the previous paragraph, “We have some choices to make”.

The reason the pioneer message (including Daniel 12) brought the people out of the churches is because the message was a test to the people of that day.

“I saw that God was in the proclamation of the time in 1843. It was His design to arouse the people and bring them to a testing point, where they should decide for or against the truth. Ministers were convinced of the correctness of the positions taken on the prophetic periods, and some renounced their pride, and left their salaries and their churches to go forth from place to place to give the message.” Early Writings, 232.

“To William Miller and his co-laborers it was given to preach the message in America, and the light kindled by their labors shone out to distant lands. The testimony of the Scriptures pointing to the coming of Christ in 1843, awakened widespread interest. Many were convinced that the arguments from the prophetic periods were correct, and, sacrificing their pride of opinion, they joyfully received the truth.” Spiritual Gifts, vol. 4, 222.

“There have been one and another who in studying their Bibles thought they discovered great light, and new theories, but these have not been correct. The Scripture is all-true, but by misapplying the Scripture men arrive at wrong conclusions. We are engaged in a mighty conflict, and it will become more close and determined, as we near the final struggle. We have a sleepless adversary, and he is constantly at work upon human minds that have not had a personal experience in the teachings of the people of God for the past fifty years. Some will take the truth applicable to their time, and place it in the future. Events in the train of prophecy that had their fulfillment away in the past are made future, and thus by these theories the faith of some is undermined.

“From the light that the Lord has been pleased to give me, you are in danger of doing the same work, presenting before others truths which have had their place and done their specific work for the time, in the history of the faith of the people of God. You recognize these facts in Bible history as true, but apply them to the future. They have their force still in their proper place, in the chain of events that have made us as a people what we are today, and as such, they are to be presented to those who are in the darkness of error. The true workers of Jesus Christ are to cooperate with their brethren who have had an experience in the work from the very rise of the third angel’s message. These followed on step by step, receiving light and truth as they advanced, bearing one test after another, lifting the cross that lay directly in their pathway, and pressing on to know the Lord, whose goings forth are prepared as the morning. You and other of our brethren must accept the truth as God has given it to His students of prophecy, as they have been led by genuine, living experience, advancing point by point, tested, proved, and tried, until the truth is to them a reality. From their voices and pens the truth in bright, warm rays has gone to all parts of the world, and that which was to them testing truth, as brought by the Lord’s delegated messengers, is testing truth to all to whom this message is proclaimed.” Selected Messages, book 2, 102.

“The burden of the warning now to come to the people of God, nigh and afar off, is the third angel’s message. And those who are seeking to understand this message will not be led by the Lord to make an application of the Word that will undermine the foundation and remove the pillars of the faith that has made Seventh-day Adventists what they are today. The truths that have been unfolding in their order, as we have advanced along the line of prophecy revealed in the Word of God, are truth, sacred, eternal truth today. Those who passed over the ground step by step in the past history of our experience, seeing the chain of truth in the prophecies, were prepared to accept and obey every ray of light. They were praying, fasting, searching, digging for the truth as for hidden treasures, and the Holy Spirit, we know, was teaching and guiding us. Many theories were advanced, bearing a semblance of truth, but so mingled with misinterpreted and misapplied scriptures, that they led to dangerous errors. Very well do we know how every point of truth was established, and the seal set upon it by the Holy Spirit of God. And all the time voices were heard, ‘Here is the truth,’ ‘I have the truth; follow me.’ But the warnings came, ‘Go not ye after them. I have not sent them, but they ran.’ See Jeremiah 23:21.

“The leadings of the Lord were marked, and most wonderful were His revelations of what is truth. Point after point was established by the Lord God of heaven. That which was truth then, is truth today. But the voices do not cease to be heard—‘This is truth. I have new light.’ But these new lights in prophetic lines are manifest in misapplying the Word and setting the people of God adrift without an anchor to hold them. If the student of the Word would take the truths, which God has revealed in the leadings of His people, and appropriate these truths, digest them, and bring them into their practical life, they would then be living channels of light. But those who have set themselves to study out new theories, have a mixture of truth and error combined, and after trying to make these things prominent, have demonstrated that they have not kindled their taper from the divine altar, and it has gone out in darkness.

“The proclamation of the first, second, and third angels’ messages has been located by the Word of Inspiration. Not a peg or pin is to be removed. No human authority has any more right to change the location of these messages than to substitute the New Testament for the Old. The Old Testament is the gospel in figures and symbols. The New Testament is the substance. One is as essential as the other. The Old Testament presents lessons from the lips of Christ, and these lessons have not lost their force in any particular.

“The first and second messages were given in 1843 and 1844, and we are now under the proclamation of the third; but all three of the messages are still to be proclaimed. It is just as essential now as ever before that they shall be repeated to those who are seeking for the truth. By pen and voice we are to sound the proclamation, showing their order, and the application of the prophecies that bring us to the third angel’s message. There cannot be a third without the first and second. These messages we are to give to the world in publications, in discourses, showing in the line of prophetic history the things that have been and the things that will be.” Selected Messages, book 2, 104.

The 1290 And 1335 Days

Another important prophetic period upon which the Advent doctrine is based, is the 1335 days of Daniel 12, with which the 1290 days are so intimately connected. These two periods are introduced to us as follows:

“And from the time that the daily (sacrifice) shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. But go thou thy way till the end be; for thou shalt rest and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.” Daniel 12:11–13.

The questions at once arise, Can we tell what the events are, from which these periods are to be dated; and if so, can we tell when they took place? We first enquire. What is the “daily” (sacrifice) and the “abomination that maketh desolate?” It will be noticed that the word, sacrifice, is in italics: denoting that it is a supplied word. The same will be noticed in the other instances of its occurrence in the book of Daniel, viz., chapter 11:31 and 8:11–13. Let us briefly refer to this latter chapter. In verse 13 it will be observed that two desolations are brought to view; the daily (desolation,) and the transgression of desolation. This fact is made so plain by Josiah Litch that we cannot do better than quote his language:

“The daily sacrifice is the present reading of the text; but no such thing as sacrifice is found in the original. This is acknowledged on all hands. It is a gloss or construction put upon it by the translators. The true reading is, ‘the daily and the transgression of desolation;’ daily and transgression being connected together by ‘and;’ the daily desolation and the transgression of desolation. They are two desolating powers which were to desolate the Sanctuary and the host.”

“From this it is evident that the “daily,” can have no reference to the Jewish worship to which it has been applied by the older and more prevalent opinion; and this is further evident from the consideration that if these periods, taken either literally or figuratively, be dated from any taking away of this worship, they do not bring us to any event whatever worthy of note.”

The daily and the abomination then, are two desolating powers, which were to oppress the church: can we ascertain what these powers are? We have only to adopt William Miller’s method of reasoning on this point to arrive at the same conclusion with him. He says:

“I read on, and could find no other case in which if [the daily] was found but in Daniel. I then [by the aid of a concordance] took those words which stood in connection with it, ‘take away;’ he shall take away the daily; ‘from the time that the daily shall be taken away.’ I read on and thought I should find no light on the text. Finally I came to 2 Thessalonians 2:7–8, ‘For the mystery of iniquity doth already work; only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way, and then shall that wicked be revealed.’ And when I had come to that text, O, how clear and glorious the truth appeared! There it is! That is ‘the daily!’ Well, now, what does Paul mean by ‘he who now letteth’ or hindereth? By ‘the Man of Sin,’ and the ‘wicked,’ Popery is meant. Well what is it which hinders Popery from being revealed? Why it is Paganism. Well, then, ‘the daily’ must mean Paganism.”

“We see from Daniel 8, that it is the little horn, which succeeded the goat, or Grecian empire, that takes away the “daily;” and it is the only power brought to view after the division of Alexander’s kingdom down to the time when the Sanctuary should be cleansed at the end of the 2300 days. This little horn we have in its proper place showed to be Rome taken as a unit, corresponding with the fourth kingdom of Daniel’s other visions. Now it is a fact that a change did take place in the Roman power from Paganism to Papacy. Paganism from the days of the Assyrian kings down to the time of its modification into Popery, had been the daily, or as Prof. Whiting renders it, “the continual” desolation, by which Satan had stood up against the cause of Jehovah. In its priests, its altars and its sacrifices, it bore resemblance to the Levitical form of Jehovah’s worship; but when the Levitical gave place to the Christian form of worship, Satan, in order to successfully oppose the work, must change also his form of opposition; hence the temples, altars and statues of Paganism are baptized into the blasphemies of Popery.

But the daily, Paganism, is said in the prophecy, to have a sanctuary, and the place of its sanctuary was to be cast down. That a sanctuary is frequently connected with idolatry and heathenism, as the place of its devotion and worship, is evident from the following scriptures: Isaiah 16:12; Amos 7:9,13, margin. Ezekiel 28:18. Concerning the sanctuary of the daily of Daniel 8, we offer the following from Apollo’s Hale:

“What can be meant by the `sanctuary’ of Paganism? Paganism, and error of every kind have their sanctuaries, as well as truth. These are the temples or asylums consecrated to their service. Some particular and renowned temple of Paganism may, then, be supposed to be here spoken of. Which of its numerous distinguished temples may it be? One of the most magnificent specimens of classic architecture is called the Pantheon. Its name signifies the `temple or asylum of all the gods.’ The place of its location is Rome. The idols of the nations conquered by the Romans were sacredly deposited in some niche or department of this temple, and in many cases became objects of worship by the Romans themselves. Could we find a temple of Paganism that was more strikingly `his sanctuary.’

Having now ascertained that the daily is Paganism, and the transgression of desolation, or “the abomination that maketh desolate,” is the Papacy, and that the especial sanctuary of Paganism was the Pantheon, and that the “place” of its location was Rome, we inquire further.”

1. Was Paganism “taken away” by the Roman civil power? The following statement of an important and well-known fact in the history of the church and world, we think answers to the prophecy. It refers to Constantine the first Christian emperor, and says:

“His first act of government was the dispatch of an edict throughout the empire, exhorting his subjects to embrace Christianity.”

1. Was Rome the city or place of his sanctuary, (the Pantheon,) cast down by the authority of the State? The following extract answers:

“The death of the last rival of Constantine had sealed the peace of the empire. Rome was once more the undisputed queen of nations. But, in that hour of elevation and splendor, she had been raised to the edge of a precipice. Her next step was to be downward and irrecoverable. The change of the government to Constantinople still perplexes the historian. It was an act in direct repugnance to the whole course of the ancient and honorable prejudices of the Roman mind. It was the work of no luxurious Asiatic, devoted to the indulgences of eastern customs and climates, but an iron conqueror, born in the west, and contemptuous, like all Romans, of the habits of the Orientals; it was the work of a keen politician, yet it was impolitic in the most palpable degree. Yet Constantine abandoned Rome, the great citadel and throne of the Caesars, for an obscure corner of Thrace, and expended the remainder of his vigorous and ambitious life in the double toil of raising a colony into the capital of his empire, and degrading the capital into the feeble honors and humiliated strength of a colony.

“This record from the pen of the historian is too plain to need comment. The place of his sanctuary was cast down, says the prophecy; and after a statement of facts like the above, the most fastidious in prophetic interpretation must be satisfied of its application.

“From the time that the daily shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth and cometh to the thousand three hundred five and thirty days. With the facts before us that the daily is Paganism, that the abomination that maketh desolate is the Papacy, that there was a change from the former to the latter in the Roman power, and by the authority of State we have but to inquire further when this took place in a manner to fulfill the prophecy; for if we can ascertain this, we have the starting point from which the prophetic periods in the text before us are to be dated.

“Therefore, when did the event referred to in the prophecy take place? Let it be observed, the question is not, when were the saints given into the hands of the Papacy, but when had the change of religion from Paganism to Papacy been so far effected as to make the latter the national religion, and place it in a condition to start upon its career. This, like all other great revolutions, was not the work of a moment. Its incipient workings were manifest long before. Paul said that even in his day the mystery of iniquity, the Man of Sin, the “abomination that maketh desolate,” was already at work. And it is in the light of this scripture that we must understand our Lord’s words in Matthew 24:15, concerning the abomination of desolation, where he makes evident reference to Daniel 9:27. For although Paganism had not given place to the Papacy in the year 70 when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans we do understand that the power which then appeared modified somewhat in name and form, was the very power that should, as the abomination of desolation, wear out the saints and desolate the church of the Most High.

“Up to the time of the conversion of Clovis, king of France, which took place in 496, the French and other nations of western Rome were Pagan; but subsequent to that event the efforts to convert idolaters to Christ were crowned with great success. It is said that the conversion of Clovis gave rise to the custom of addressing the French monarch with the titles of Most Christian Majesty and Eldest Son of the Church. “Between that time and A.D. 508 by alliances,’ `capitulations’ and conquests, `the Avborici,’ the `Roman garrisons in the west,’ Brittany, the Burgundians and the Visigoths, were brought into subjection.

“Paganism in the western Roman Empire, though it doubtless retarded the progress of the Christian faith, especially in those nations which were molested, as in the case of England, by the inroads of the barbarous clans, who continued idolaters, henceforth had not the power, if it had the disposition to suppress the Catholic faith, or to hinder the encroachments of the Roman Pontiff. From that time, the Papal abomination was triumphant, so far as Paganism was concerned. Its future contests were with the other Christian sects, who were always treated as heretics; and with princes who were always treated as rebels or dividers of the body of Christ. The prominent powers of Europe gave up their attachment to Paganism only to perpetuate its abominations in another form; for Paganism needed only to be baptized to become Christian in the Catholic sense; and when the interests or vengeance of its presiding minister made the demand, their possessions and thrones, perhaps their lives, must be laid on the altar.

“In England, Arthur, the first Christian king, founded the Christian worship on the ruins of the Pagan. Rapin, who claims to be more exact in the chronology of events in his history, states that he was elected monarch of Britain in 508.” Book ii, 129.

What was the condition of the See of Rome at this time? “Symmachus was Pope from 498 or 9 to 514. His pontificate was distinguished by these remarkable circumstances and events:

1. He `left Paganism’ when he entered the `church of Rome.’
2. He found his way to the Papal chair by striving with his competitor even unto blood.
3. By the adulation paid to him as the successor of St. Peter.
4. By the excommunication of the Emperor Anastasius.

“How much,” says Mosheim, “the opinions of some were favorable to the lordly demands of the Roman Pontiffs, may be easily imagined from an expression of Ennodius, that infamous and extravagant flatterer of Symmachus, who was a prelate of ambiguous fame. This parasitical panegyrist, among other impertinent assertions maintained that the Pontiff was constituted judge in the place of God, which he filled as the Vicegerent of the Most High.”

By the strength secured to the Catholic cause in the west, by these successes, and the agency of the vicars, and other agents of the See of Rome, the Papal party in Constantinople were “placed” in a position to justify open hostilities in behalf of their master at Rome. “In 508 the whirlwind of fanaticism and civil war swept in fire and blood through the streets of the eastern capital.’’

Gibbon, under the years 508-514, speaking of the commotions in Constantinople, says, “The statues of the emperor were broken, and his person was concealed in a suburb, till, at the end of three days, he dared to implore the mercy of his subjects. [Popery is triumphant.] Without his diadem, and in the posture of a suppliant, Anastasius appeared on the throne of the circus. The Catholics, before his face, rehearsed the genuine Trisagion; they exulted in the offer which he proclaimed by the voice of a herald, of abdicating the purple; they listened to the admonition, that, since all could not reign, they should previously agree in the choice of a sovereign; and they accepted the blood of two unpopular ministers, whom their master, without hesitation, condemned to the lions. These furious but transient seditions were encouraged by the success of Vitalian, who with his army of Huns and Bulgarians, for the most part idolaters, declared himself the champion of the Catholic faith. In this pious rebellion he depopulated Thrace, besieged Constantinople, exterminated sixty-five thousand of his fellow Christians, till he obtained the recall of the bishops, the satisfaction of the Pope, and the establishment of the council of Chalcedon, an orthodox treaty, reluctantly signed by the dying Anastasius, and more faithfully performed by the uncle of Justinian. And such was the event of the first of the religious wars which have been waged in the name, and by the disciples, of the God of Peace.”

With the following extract from Appollos Hale, we close the testimony on this point:

“We now invite our modern Gamaliels to take a position with us in the place of the sanctuary of Paganism (since claimed as the `patrimony of St. Peter’) in 508. We look a few years into the past, and the rude Paganism of the northern barbarians is pouring down upon the nominally Christian empire of Western Rome triumphing everywhere and its triumphs everywhere distinguished by the most savage cruelty…. The empire falls and is broken into fragments. One by one the lords and rulers of these fragments, abandon their Paganism and profess the Christian faith. In religion the conquerors are yielding to the conquered. But still Paganism is triumphant. Among its supporters there is one stern and successful conqueror. (Clovis.) But soon he also bows before the power of the new faith and becomes its champion. He is still triumphant, but, as a hero and conqueror, reaches the zenith at the point we occupy, A.D. 508.

“In or near the same year, the last important subdivision of the fallen empire is publicly, and by the coronation of its triumphant `monarch’ Christianized.

“The pontiff for the period on which we stand is a recently converted Pagan. The bloody contest which placed him in the chair was decided by the interposition of an Arian king. He is bowed to and saluted as filling `the place of God on earth.’ The senate is so far under his power, that, on suspicion that the interests of the See of Rome demand it, they excommunicate the emperor…In 508 the mine is sprung beneath the throne of the Eastern Empire. The result of the confusion and strife it occasions is the humiliation of its rightful lord. Now the question is, At what time was Paganism so far suppressed, as to make room for its substitute and successor, the Papal abomination? When was this abomination placed in a position to start on its career of blasphemy and blood? Is there any other date for its being `placed,’ or `set up’ in the room of Paganism, but 508? If the mysterious enchantress has not now brought all her victims within her power, she has taken her position, and some have yielded to the fascination. The others are at length subdued, `and kings, and peoples and multitudes, and nations, and tongues,’ are brought under the spell which prepares them, even while `drunken with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus,’ to `think they are doing God service,’ and to fancy themselves the exclusive favorites of heaven, while becoming an easier and richer prey for the damnation of hell”

“We have the date. The “daily” was taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up in 508. Dating from this point the 1290 days or years terminate in 1798 where, as has already been shown, the civil power was stricken from the Pope by the arm of Buonaparte. The 1335 days bring us 45 full years this side of that event.”

“But some may say, how is it that you make the periods terminate in the past? Does it not read that Daniel should rest and stand in his lot at the end of the days? Certainly; and we believe it. But what is it for Daniel to stand in his lot? This point will come under consideration when we come to an explanation of the passing of the time, and an examination of the events that did take place at the end of the days. Meanwhile we here cast anchor till another week.” The Review and Herald, January 28, 1858.

I learned this last week that Sam Bachiocchi is putting forth a “new understanding” regarding the 1260 day/years. I was deeply saddened. I will not read it unless duty demands it, but I wondered if you had heard about it? That is one of the clearest and well established foundation rocks of our prophetic understanding. How could anyone have the nerve to lay unhallowed hands on that? I wanted to weep!

I wanted to ask a question and I do not mean it as any criticism in the least. I want to have a full spectrum of your prophetic information on the subweb—and I don’t have as much transcribed as I would wish. I haven’t been getting the time to do much and have been sicker than usual lately. But what I want to ask is this. I find that all the messages coming out lately seem to be repetitious, and I can understand that they might have to be, but can you provide some guidance to me as to what is the most important articles to set before the people in order to cover the message without so much repetition? Could you send me e-files like you did that one time so I could post them on the subweb?

Response

Yes, I have heard about Bachiochi’s new ideas. Too often, it appears to me, that theologians set aside established foundations under the pretense of upholding an incorrect definition of intellectual honesty. I sometimes think theologians will be the most difficult humans for God to save, because they spend their efforts studying about God instead of seeking to know God.

“Jesus chose unlearned fishermen because they had not been schooled in the traditions and erroneous customs of their time. They were men of native ability, and they were humble and teachable,—men whom He could educate for His work. In the common walks of life there is many a man patiently treading the round of daily toil, unconscious that he possesses powers which, if called into action, would raise him to an equality with the world’s most honored men. The touch of a skillful hand is needed to arouse those dormant faculties. It was such men that Jesus called to be His co-laborers; and He gave them the advantage of association with Himself. Never had the world’s great men such a teacher. When the disciples came forth from the Saviour’s training, they were no longer ignorant and uncultured. They had become like Him in mind and character, and men took knowledge of them that they had been with Jesus.” The Desire of Ages, 250.

I also struggle with the repetition of my material. But, I am under conviction that the themes we are sharing are present truth, and that they are widely unknown or misunderstood. Because of this, it is difficult for me to move away from the basic truths which we present. It is a personal dilemma I deal with regularly. I am stuck with this situation until the Lord removes the burden I have for the basic principles which I return to so often. If I was to council you on which presentation are the most important I would suggest The Final Rise and Fall of the King of the North as the foundation of our material. This sets forth the basic prophetic understanding that brings all our other materials together, I would follow that by the series titled Adventism’s Parable, for this brings the prophetic message together with us as God’s people. I would then look at The Judgment of the Living and The Purification of God’s Church series. For me it is important to understand what takes place at the Sunday law and how the Sunday law relates to Christ’s work in the Most Holy Place. These two series touch on these themes.

A while back you helped us with some questions that my husband had. I appreciate that. Now he has some more questions. I guess you are aware that Samuel Bacchiocchi has put out a theory that the Islam people will join hands with the Catholics and come together. What do you think? Did Sister White ever say anything about this? What do think their part will be in all of this? Next question! Since everybody seems to be so against President Bush and this Iraq war, how will this man be the one to get the whole world to follow the US with the coming Sunday law. I voted for Bush because I felt like he would bring the law in and we would be closer to the Coming of our Lord. His father plays such a role in the New World Order.

Response

We are told that all apostate powers will unite to oppose God and His people:

“‘These have one mind.’ There will be a universal bond of union, one great harmony, a confederacy of Satan’s forces. ‘And shall give their power and strength unto the beast.’ Thus is manifested the same arbitrary, oppressive power against religious liberty, freedom to worship God according to the dictates of conscience, as was manifested by the papacy, when in the past it persecuted those who dared to refuse to conform with the religious rites and ceremonies of Romanists.”

“In the warfare to be waged in the last days there will be united, in opposition to God’s people, all the corrupt powers that have apostatized from allegiance to the law of Jehovah.” Selected Messages, book 3, 393.

This being stated, the sequence of events leading to this world unification includes the Moslems as a prophetic catalyst to bring the world into political agreement prior to the persecution of God’s people.

The ultimate effect of the terrorism of the Moslem extremists is to provide the reasoning and justification for a one-world government. This I believe is the inspired pronouncement upon the descendents of Ishmael:

“And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.” Genesis 16:10–12.

There are many factors that prophecy identifies that contribute to the Sunday law in the US and the current history that President Bush is fulfilling fits with it all. Iraq is part of the Moslem world and therefore fulfills the purpose of uniting “every man’s hand”. Also the “temporal prosperity” of the USA is swept away before the Sunday law. Consider the cost of the current war on terrorism, and then look to Wall Street as it spirals down. Notice also the Religious Right in the US fulfilling its role as the “false prophet” as it begins to identify who and what are the causes of the current problems while seeking political support for action against the troublers of the people by the government of the USA. (First the Palestinians and Iraq, but ultimately Seventh day Adventists.) It is not the responsibility of George Bush to accomplish these things, for he is simply a ruler subject to God’s divine providence.

If I had a concern about your note, it would be on the concept of voting for a man we thought would bring on the final events. The inspired commentary on this subject is that we are to do everything to hold back these final evil times.

“We as a people have not accomplished the work which God has committed to us. We are not ready for the issue to which the enforcement of the Sunday law will bring us. It is our duty, as we see the signs of approaching peril, to arouse to action. Let none sit in calm expectation of the evil, comforting themselves with the belief that this work must go on because prophecy has foretold it, and that the Lord will shelter His people. We are not doing the will of God if we sit in quietude, doing nothing to preserve liberty of conscience. Fervent, effectual prayer should be ascending to heaven that this calamity may be deferred until we can accomplish the work which has so long been neglected. Let there be most earnest prayer, and then let us work in harmony with our prayers. It may appear that Satan is triumphant and that truth is overborne with falsehood and error; the people over whom God has spread His shield, and the country which has been an asylum for the conscience-oppressed servants of God and defenders of His truth, may be placed in jeopardy. But God would have us recall His dealings with His people in the past to save them from their enemies. He has always chosen extremities, when there seemed no possible chance for deliverance from Satan’s workings, for the manifestation of His power. Man’s necessity is God’s opportunity. It may be that a respite may yet be granted for God’s people to awake and let their light shine. If the presence of ten righteous persons would have saved the wicked cities of the plain, is it not possible that God will yet, in answer to the prayers of His people, hold in check the workings of those who are making void His law? Shall we not humble our hearts greatly before God, flee to the mercy seat, and plead with Him to reveal His mighty power?” Testimonies, vol. 5, 714.

I could add that I believe that when it comes to politics we have a responsibility to uphold a defense for religious liberty, but there are few if any other issues in the political sphere that God’s people should be involved with. As I view things, (from my human perspective) it does not appear that God’s people are ready what is beginning to take place. I believe our efforts are to work to prolong the time as much as possible, so that we can wake up, prepare and sound the warning for others.

Jeff,

V. stumbled onto my 20-yr old copy of the workbook that Marion G. Berry put out on the Song of Solomon. I kind of pride myself on being able to detect error in a document or study, but as I reviewed my notes and comments made so long ago, I see that I didn’t find anything really objectionable in her approach then, and even though I’ve only re-read the closing-events stuff in it again, I still cant really put my finger on any part of it and say, “This is off-track.” In fact, it looks pretty good to me.

I also noticed while looking at her stuff on the web that she has a book out on the “daily” too, dated 2000, and the synopsis seems to indicate she supports the pioneer position.

Could it be that her material is useful to help back up our understanding of Daniel 11?

I am distressed that the things we have known for ten years now aren’t going out to our SDA people and the world fast enough. Then there are guys like my local pastor here who believes and teaches that Daniel 11 is all about the history of Islam’s interaction with the papacy; (no mention of a Sabbath controversy or death decree though)….

However, I got an email from Steve Dickie that said General Conference Vice President Ted Wilson and Angel Manuel Rodriguez of the Biblical Research Institute indicated to him that they like the stuff he’s been presenting. He said too that this Sabbath he was to be presenting a message at 3ABN to counteract John Lomacang’s futurism.

I pray that the truth has and will prevail in people’s hearts and minds. God Bless! P.

Response

Brother P,

By their fruits ye shall know them. For me, I am convinced that literally and actually thousands of men and women have lost their way to the kingdom of God, at least in part, due to the influence of Marion Berry. She is no doubt the champion in Adventism for publishing her foolishness on how and why the time prophecies in Daniel twelve are fulfilled at the end of time in a literal day for a day fashion.

She identifies that the “daily” in the book of Daniel represents a change of powers. A “change of powers” is not paganism. It may be that what she wrote on the Song of Solomon is correct. I have not looked at that for years. I looked at it when it first came out, and at that time my discernment was not focused on either Marion Berry, or false prophecy. I know that to the law and the testimony—if they speak not accordingly, there is no light. She disagrees with the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.

The message for the Millerites was Daniel eight. In defending that message Miller had to meet two errors about the little horn: the first being that it represented Antiochus Epiphanies and the second that it was Islam. It is similar that your pastor would once again try to hide the truth about Rome with Islam in Daniel eleven. Samuel Bacchiocchi pushes the same idea, implying that Islam is the antichrist.

“Those who become confused in their understanding of the Word, who fail to see the meaning of antichrist, will surely place themselves on the side of antichrist. There is no time now for us to assimilate with the world. Daniel is standing in his lot and in his place. The prophecies of Daniel and of John are to be understood. They interpret each other. They give to the world truths which everyone should understand. These prophecies are to be witnesses in the world. By their fulfillment in these last days they will explain themselves.” Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, volume 7, 949.

The king of the north is simply another prophetic illustration of antichrist. Hopefully your pastor will overcome his current “confusion”. Even Pfandl and I suppose all of the Biblical Research Institute acknowledge the king of the north as the papacy. Until next time, Jeff.

Jeff,

V. stumbled onto my 20-yr old copy of the workbook that Marion G. Berry put out on the Song of Solomon. I kind of pride myself on being able to detect error in a document or study, but as I reviewed my notes and comments made so long ago, I see that I didn’t find anything really objectionable in her approach then, and even though I’ve only re-read the closing-events stuff in it again, I still cant really put my finger on any part of it and say, “This is off-track.” In fact, it looks pretty good to me.

I also noticed while looking at her stuff on the web that she has a book out on the “daily” too, dated 2000, and the synopsis seems to indicate she supports the pioneer position.

Could it be that her material is useful to help back up our understanding of Daniel 11?

I am distressed that the things we have known for ten years now aren’t going out to our SDA people and the world fast enough. Then there are guys like my local pastor here who believes and teaches that Daniel 11 is all about the history of Islam’s interaction with the papacy; (no mention of a Sabbath controversy or death decree though). . . .

However, I got an email from Steve Dickie that said General Conference Vice President Ted Wilson and Angel Manuel Rodriguez of the Biblical Research Institute indicated to him that they like the stuff he’s been presenting. He said too that this Sabbath he was to be presenting a message at 3ABN to counteract John Lomacang’s futurism.

I pray that the truth has and will prevail in people’s hearts and minds. God Bless! P.

Response

Brother P,

By their fruits ye shall know them. For me, I am convinced that literally and actually thousands of men and women have lost their way to the kingdom of God, at least in part, due to the influence of Marion Berry. She is no doubt the champion in Adventism for publishing her foolishness on how and why the time prophecies in Daniel twelve are fulfilled at the end of time in a literal day for a day fashion.

She identifies that the “daily” in the book of Daniel represents a change of powers. A “change of powers” is not paganism. It may be that what she wrote on the Song of Solomon is correct. I have not looked at that for years. I looked at it when it first came out, and at that time my discernment was not focused on either Marion Berry, or false prophecy. I know that to the law and the testimony—if they speak not accordingly, there is no light. She disagrees with the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy.

The message for the Millerites was Daniel eight. In defending that message Miller had to meet two errors about the little horn: the first being that it represented Antiochus Epiphanies and the second that it was Islam. It is similar that your pastor would once again try to hide the truth about Rome with Islam in Daniel eleven. Samuel Bacchiocchi pushes the same idea, implying that Islam is the antichrist.

“Those who become confused in their understanding of the Word, who fail to see the meaning of antichrist, will surely place themselves on the side of antichrist. There is no time now for us to assimilate with the world. Daniel is standing in his lot and in his place. The prophecies of Daniel and of John are to be understood. They interpret each other. They give to the world truths which every one should understand. These prophecies are to be witnesses in the world. By their fulfillment in these last days they will explain themselves.” Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, volume 7, 949.

The king of the north is simply another prophetic illustration of antichrist. Hopefully your pastor will overcome his current “confusion”. Even Pfandl and I suppose all of the Biblical Research Institute acknowledge the king of the north as the papacy. Until next time, Jeff.

Dear Brother,

I finished translating your presentation titled Scenes Similar, into Power Point. It is a very good presentation. I learned more about Daniel. I know that NR is wrong in rejecting the whole message you are giving. But you are also wrong saying that the judgment of the living began on September 11, 2001. At least, that is what I can see. May God bless you. EE.

Response

ed-hrvatski.com

Brother EE,

NR is definitely wrong and especially concerning September 11, 2001.

When the angel of Revelation eighteen descends—it marks the arrival of the latter rain, which is the refreshing and the heavenly dew.

“The latter rain is to fall upon the people of God. A mighty angel is to come down from heaven, and the whole earth is to be lighted with His glory. Are we ready to take part in the glorious work of the third angel? Are our vessels ready to receive the heavenly dew? Have we defilement and sin in the heart? If so, let us cleanse the soul temple, and prepare for the showers of the latter rain. The refreshing from the presence of the Lord will never come to hearts filled with impurity. May God help us to die to self, that Christ, the hope of glory, may be formed within!” Review and Herald, April 21, 1891.

The latter rain falls during the sealing of the one-hundred and forty-four thousand.

“Before the work is closed up and the sealing of God’s people is finished, we shall receive the outpouring of the Spirit of God. Angels from heaven will be in our midst. The present is a fitting-up time for heaven when we must walk in full obedience to all the commands of God.” Selected Messages, book 1, 111.

When the angel of Revelation eighteen descends the latter rain begins to fall and the sealing of the one-hundred and forty-four thousand begins. No one receives the seal of God who still possesses one spot or stain upon their characters.

“Not all who profess to keep the Sabbath will be sealed. There are many even among those who teach the truth to others who will not receive the seal of God in their foreheads. They had the light of truth, they knew their Master’s will, they understood every point of our faith, but they had not corresponding works. These who were so familiar with prophecy and the treasures of divine wisdom should have acted their faith. They should have commanded their households after them, that by a well-ordered family they might present to the world the influence of the truth upon the human heart.

“By their lack of devotion and piety, and their failure to reach a high religious standard, they make other souls contented with their position. Men of finite judgment cannot see that in patterning after these men who have so often opened to them the treasures of God’s word, they will surely endanger their souls. Jesus is the only true pattern. Everyone must now search the Bible for himself upon his knees before God, with the humble, teachable heart of a child, if he would know what the Lord requires of him. However high any minister may have stood in the favor of God, if he neglects to follow out the light given him of God, if he refuses to be taught as a little child, he will go into darkness and satanic delusions and will lead others in the same path.

“Not one of us will ever receive the seal of God while our characters have one spot or stain upon them. It is left with us to remedy the defects in our characters, to cleanse the soul-temple of every defilement. Then the latter rain will fall upon us as the early rain fell upon the disciples on the day of Pentecost.” Testimonies, volume 5, 214.

When the angel of Revelation eighteen descends the latter rain begins and the sealing of the one hundred and forty-four thousand commences. The outpouring of the latter rain has been prefigured by the Pentecostal outpouring, for it is only after we received the seal of God that “the latter rain will fall upon us as the early rain fell upon the disciples on the day of Pentecost.” The outpouring of the latter rain at Pentecost was preceded by a sprinkling.

“The act of Christ in breathing upon his disciples the Holy Ghost, and in imparting his peace to them, was as a few drops before the plentiful shower to be given on the day of Pentecost.” Spirit of Prophecy, volume 3, 243.

The full outpouring of the latter rain occurs at the Sunday law.

“What are you doing, brethren, in the great work of preparation? Those who are uniting with the world are receiving the worldly mold and preparing for the mark of the beast. Those who are distrustful of self, who are humbling themselves before God and purifying their souls by obeying the truth these are receiving the heavenly mold and preparing for the seal of God in their foreheads. When the decree goes forth and the stamp is impressed, their character will remain pure and spotless for eternity.

“Now is the time to prepare. The seal of God will never be placed upon the forehead of an impure man or woman. It will never be placed upon the forehead of the ambitious, world-loving man or woman. It will never be placed upon the forehead of men or women of false tongues or deceitful hearts. All who receive the seal must be without spot before God—candidates for heaven. Go forward, my brethren and sisters. I can only write briefly upon these points at this time, merely calling your attention to the necessity of preparation. Search the Scriptures for yourselves, that you may understand the fearful solemnity of the present hour.” Testimonies, volume 5, 216.

At the Sunday law decree the “stamp is impressed.” Adventists will then receive either the seal of God or the mark of the beast.

“If the light of truth has been presented to you, revealing the Sabbath of the fourth commandment, and showing that there is no foundation in the Word of God for Sunday observance, and yet you still cling to the false sabbath, refusing to keep holy the Sabbath which God calls ‘My holy day,’ you receive the mark of the beast. When does this take place? When you obey the decree that commands you to cease from labor on Sunday and worship God, while you know that there is not a word in the Bible showing Sunday to be other than a common working day, you consent to receive the mark of the beast, and refuse the seal of God.” Evangelism, 235.

At the Sunday law the Holy Spirit is poured out without measure upon those with the seal of God, as prefigured at Pentecost; but prior to the Sunday law the sprinkling or measuring of the latter rain occurs.

And also I have with holden the rain from you, when there were yet three months to the harvest: and I caused it to rain upon one city, and caused it not to rain upon another city: one piece was rained upon, and the piece whereupon it rained not withered. So two or three cities wandered unto one city, to drink water; but they were not satisfied: yet have ye not returned unto me, saith the Lord. Amos 4:7–8.

Rain and oil represent the outpouring of the Spirit.

And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Matthew 25:6–12.

“The anointed ones standing by the Lord of the whole earth, have the position once given to Satan as covering cherub. By the holy beings surrounding his throne, the Lord keeps up a constant communication with the inhabitants of the earth. The golden oil represents the grace with which God keeps the lamps of believers supplied, that they shall not flicker and go out. Were it not that this holy oil is poured from heaven in the messages of God’s Spirit, the agencies of evil would have entire control over men.

“God is dishonored when we do not receive the communications which he sends us. Thus we refuse the golden oil which he would pour into our souls to be communicated to those in darkness.” Review and Herald, July 20, 1897.

Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass. Deuteronomy 32:1–2.

At the Sunday law the Holy Spirit is poured out without measure as it was at Pentecost, but prior to the Sunday law the sprinkling or measuring of the latter rain occurs. Therefore when the angel descends and the latter rain begins to sprinkle; you and I must recognize this fact if we wish to partake of the few drops that prepares us to participate in the full outpouring at the Sunday law. One city will receive the rain, the other will not. The wise virgins will receive the oil, but the five foolish virgins will not. When the withered cities and the foolish virgins ask of the wise for the rain or oil, it is too late, for the door is closed. In order to receive the rain and partake of the oil we must recognize that the rain is falling.

“Unless we are daily advancing in the exemplification of the active Christian virtues, we shall not recognize the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in the latter rain. It may be falling on hearts all around us, but we shall not discern or receive it.” Testimonies to Ministers, 507.

The latter rain must be recognized, to be received.

RECOGNIZE: 1. To recollect or recover the knowledge of, either with an avowal of that knowledge or not. We recognize a person at a distance, when we recollect that we have seen him before, or that we have formerly known him. We recognize his features or his voice. Webster’s 1828 Dictionary.

“Unless those who can help in — are aroused to a sense of their duty, they will not recognize the work of God when the loud cry of the third angel shall be heard. When light goes forth to lighten the earth, instead of coming up to the help of the Lord, they will want to bind about His work to meet their narrow ideas. Let me tell you that the Lord will work in this last work in a manner very much out of the common order of things, and in a way that will be contrary to any human planning. There will be those among us who will always want to control the work of God, to dictate even what movements shall be made when the work goes forward under the direction of the angel who joins the third angel in the message to be given to the world. God will use ways and means by which it will be seen that He is taking the reins in His own hands. The workers will be surprised by the simple means that He will use to bring about and perfect His work of righteousness.” Testimonies to Minsters, 300.

“We must not wait for the latter rain. It is coming upon all who will recognize and appropriate the dew and showers of grace that fall upon us. When we gather up the fragments of light, when we appreciate the sure mercies of God, who loves to have us trust Him, then every promise will be fulfilled. [Isaiah 61:11 quoted.] The whole earth is to be filled with the glory of God.” The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, volume 7, 984.

“Now, brethren, God wants us to take our position with the man that carries the lantern; we want to take our position where the light is, and where God has given the trumpet a certain sound. We want to give the trumpet a certain sound. We have been in perplexity, and we have been in doubt, and the churches are ready to die. But now here we read: ‘And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird’ [Revelation 18:1–2].

“Well now, how are we going to know anything about that message if we are not in a position to recognize anything of the light of heaven when it comes to us? And we will just as soon pick up the darkest deception when it comes to us from somebody that agrees with s, when we have not a particle of evidence that the Spirit of God has sent them. Christ said, ‘I come in the name of my Father, but ye will not receive me’ [see John 5:43]. Now, that is just the work that has been going on here ever since the meeting at Minneapolis. Because God sends a message in his name that does not agree with your ideas, therefore [you conclude] it cannot be a message from God.” Sermons and Talks, volume 1, 142.

The descent of the angel of Revelation eighteen marks the beginning of the latter rain while also marking the beginning of the sealing of the one hundred and forty-four thousand; and in order to partake of the latter rain the descent of the angel must be recognized. The descent of this angel is an event that must be recognized.

“The message in regard to the fall of Babylon must be given. God’s people are to understand in regard to the angel who is to lighten the whole world with his glory, while he cries mightily, with a loud voice, ‘Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen.’ The solemn events which are now taking place belong to a series of events in the chain of history, the first link of which is connected with Eden.” The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, volume 7, 985.

We are required to know and therefore recognize “the solemn events” of prophetic history.

“All that God has in prophetic history specified to be fulfilled in the past has been, and all that is yet to come in its order will be. Daniel, God’s prophet, stands in his place. John stands in his place. In the Revelation the Lion of the tribe of Judah has opened to the students of prophecy the book of Daniel, and thus is Daniel standing in his place. He bears his testimony, that which the Lord revealed to him in vision of the great and solemn events which we must know as we stand on the very threshold of their fulfillment.” Selected Messages, book 2, 109.

We must know the “great and solemn events” that the Lion of the tribe of Judah opened in the book of Revelation. Be very careful with this next passage.

“Greatness without goodness is valueless. It is as a tinkling cymbal. The man who does not gather about him the rays of light that God has let shine upon his pathway will surely surround himself with the shadows of darkness. God designs that His people shall press closer and still closer to the light. Then they will go forward and upward….

“Satan has come down with great power, knowing that his time is short. The continued apostasy, the abounding iniquity, which chills the faith and constancy of many, should call the faithful ones to the front. Straight, clear, decided Testimonies, freighted with the light for the time, will be given. Truth, undimmed by the furnace, will shine brighter and brighter until the perfect day. The Spirit and power of the coming One will be imparted in large measure to those who are preparing to stand in the day of God, who are hastening the second advent of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To these faithful ones Christ gives special communications. He talks with them as He talked with His disciples before leaving them. The Spirit of truth will guide them into all truth. God has lines of communication with the world today. Through His appointed agencies, He speaks to the people He is purifying, warning and encouraging them….

“Here is a precious promise; the purposes and plans of God are to be opened to His disciples. What is a disciple? A learner, ever learning. Coming events, of a solemn character, are opening before us, and God would not have any one of us think that in these last days there is no more that we need to know. This is a continual snare of Satan. He [Satan] would have us meet coming events without that special preparation which is essential to guide them through every difficulty. He would have all stumbling their way along in ignorance, making self-conceit, self-esteem, self-confidence, take the place of true knowledge. The more satisfied anyone is with himself, and his present knowledge, the less earnestly and humbly will he seek to be guided into all truth. The less of the Holy Spirit of God he has, the more self-satisfied and complacent he will feel. He will not search earnestly and with the deepest interest to know more of truth. But unless he keeps pace with the Leader, who is guiding into all truth, he will be left behind, belated, blinded, confused, because he is not walking in the light…. The word of God is to be the man of our counsel…

“All heaven is looking upon the remnant people of God, to see if they will make truth alone their shield and buckler. Unless the truth is presented as it is in Jesus, and is planted in the heart by the power of the Spirit of God, even ministers will be found drifting away from Christ, away from piety, away from religious principle. They will become blind leaders of the blind.” Manuscript Releases, volume 5, 50.

We must know the “great and solemn events” that the Lion of the tribe of Judah opened in the book of Revelation, for those messages are the latter rain.

“To John were opened scenes of deep and thrilling interest in the experience of the church. He saw the position, dangers, conflicts, and final deliverance of the people of God. He records the closing messages which are to ripen the harvest of the earth, either as sheaves for the heavenly garner or as fagots for the fires of destruction. Subjects of vast importance were revealed to him, especially for the last church, that those who should turn from error to truth might be instructed concerning the perils and conflicts before them. None need be in darkness in regard to what is coming upon the earth.” The Great Controversy, 341.

The messages of Revelation “ripen the harvest of the earth,” but we are also informed that it is the latter rain that ripens the harvest.

“‘Ask ye of the Lord rain in the time of the latter rain; so the Lord shall make bright clouds, and give them showers of rain.’ ‘He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain.’ In the East the former rain falls at the sowing time. It is necessary in order that the seed may germinate. Under the influence of the fertilizing showers, the tender shoot springs up. The latter rain, falling near the close of the season, ripens the grain and prepares it for the sickle. The Lord employs these operations of nature to represent the work of the Holy Spirit. As the dew and the rain are given first to cause the seed to germinate, and then to ripen the harvest, so the Holy Spirit is given to carry forward, from one stage to another, the process of spiritual growth. The ripening of the grain represents the completion of the work of God’s grace in the soul. By the power of the Holy Spirit the moral image of God is to be perfected in the character. We are to be wholly transformed into the likeness of Christ.

“The latter rain, ripening earth’s harvest, represents the spiritual grace that prepares the church for the coming of the Son of man. But unless the former rain has fallen, there will be no life; the green blade will not spring up. Unless the early showers have done their work, the latter rain can bring no seed to perfection.” Testimonies to Ministers, 506.

The messages in the book of Revelation are the latter rain.

Sister White just cited Zechariah 10:1, where Zechariah commands us to “ask ye of the Lord rain in the time of the latter rain.” How can I ask for the latter rain the time of the latter rain, if I do not recognize that it is the “time” of the latter rain? And is the latter rain actually an appointed time? Peter thought so, for he called the latter rain the “times of refreshing” and the “times of restitution.”

On September 11, 2001 the mighty angel of Revelation eighteen descended marking that the time of the latter rain and the sealing of the one hundred and forty-four thousand had begun. This can be proved by bringing the various illustrations of the latter rain represented by the sacred reforms movements’ together line upon line in order to illustrate the events that mark the arrival of the mighty angel of Revelation eighteen. It is no accident that when Sister White informs us that the messages of Revelation are the latter rain, that she places this truth in the very context of bringing the various lines of prophetic history which illustrate the latter rain together. In fact she makes the claim that no truth is more clearly taught than the work God accomplishes through men in the sacred reform movements. That is quite a claim.

“To John were opened scenes of deep and thrilling interest in the experience of the church. He saw the position, dangers, conflicts, and final deliverance of the people of God. He records the closing messages which are to ripen the harvest of the earth, either as sheaves for the heavenly garner or as fagots for the fires of destruction. Subjects of vast importance were revealed to him, especially for the last church, that those who should turn from error to truth might be instructed concerning the perils and conflicts before them. None need be in darkness in regard to what is coming upon the earth.

“Why, then, this widespread ignorance concerning an important part of Holy Writ? Why this general reluctance to investigate its teachings? It is the result of a studied effort of the prince of darkness to conceal from men that which reveals his deceptions. For this reason, Christ the Revelator, foreseeing the warfare that would be waged against the study of the Revelation, pronounced a blessing upon all who should read, hear, and observe the words of the prophecy.

“The work of God in the earth presents, from age to age, a striking similarity in every great reformation or religious movement. The principles of God’s dealing with men are ever the same. The important movements of the present have their parallel in those of the past, and the experience of the church in former ages has lessons of great value for our own time.

“No truth is more clearly taught in the Bible than that God by His Holy Spirit especially directs His servants on earth in the great movements for the carrying forward of the work of salvation. Men are instruments in the hand of God, employed by Him to accomplish His purposes of grace and mercy. Each has his part to act; to each is granted a measure of light, adapted to the necessities of his time, and sufficient to enable him to perform the work which God has given him to do. But no man, however honored of Heaven, has ever attained to a full understanding of the great plan of redemption, or even to a perfect appreciation of the divine purpose in the work for his own time. Men do not fully understand what God would accomplish by the work which He gives them to do; they do not comprehend, in all its bearings, the message which they utter in His name.

“‘Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection?’ ‘My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.’ ‘I am God, and there is none like Me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done.’ Job 11:7; Isaiah 55:8, 9; 46:9, 10. “Even the prophets who were favored with the special illumination of the Spirit did not fully comprehend the import of the revelations committed to them. The meaning was to be unfolded from age to age, as the people of God should need the instruction therein contained. “Peter, writing of the salvation brought to light through the gospel, says: Of this salvation ‘the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister.’ 1 Peter 1:10-12.

“Yet while it was not given to the prophets to understand fully the things revealed to them, they earnestly sought to obtain all the light which God had been pleased to make manifest. They ‘inquired and searched diligently,’ ‘searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify.’ What a lesson to the people of God in the Christian age, for whose benefit these prophecies were given to His servants! ‘Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister.’ Witness those holy men of God as they ‘inquired and searched diligently’concerning revelations given them for generations that were yet unborn. Contrast their holy zeal with the listless unconcern with which the favored ones of later ages treat this gift of Heaven. What a rebuke to the ease-loving, world-loving indifference which is content to declare that the prophecies cannot be understood!

“Though the finite minds of men are inadequate to enter into the counsels of the Infinite One, or to understand fully the working out of His purposes, yet often it is because of some error or neglect on their own part that they so dimly comprehend the messages of Heaven. Not infrequently the minds of the people, and even of God’s servants, are so blinded by human opinions, the traditions and false teaching of men, that they are able only partially to grasp the great things which He has revealed in His word. Thus it was with the disciples of Christ, even when the Saviour was with them in person. Their minds had become imbued with the popular conception of the Messiah as a temporal prince, who was to exalt Israel to the throne of the universal empire, and they could not understand the meaning of His words foretelling His sufferings and death.” The Great Controversy, 342–344.

On September 11, 2001 the mighty angel of Revelation eighteen descended marking that the time of the latter rain and the sealing of the one hundred and forty-four thousand had begun. The latter rain is a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel. The prophecy of Joel was fulfilled at Pentecost and also in the Millerite history—and is now being fulfilled again. The history of Pentecost and the Millerites prefigures our time. Sister White confirms this many times.

“The angel who unites in the proclamation of the third angel’s message is to lighten the whole earth with his glory. A work of world-wide extent and unwonted power is here foretold. The advent movement of 1840–44 was a glorious manifestation of the power of God; the first angel’s message was carried to every missionary station in the world, and in some countries there was the greatest religious interest which has been witnessed in any land since the Reformation of the sixteenth century; but these are to be exceeded by the mighty movement under the last warning of the third angel.

“The work will be similar to that of the Day of Pentecost. As the ‘former rain’ was given, in the outpouring of the Holy Spirit at the opening of the gospel, to cause the up springing of the precious seed, so the ‘latter rain’ will be given at its close for the ripening of the harvest. ‘Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: His going forth is prepared as the morning; and He shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.’ Hosea 6:3. ‘Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the Lord your God: for He hath given you the former rain moderately, and He will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain.’ Joel 2:23. ‘In the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh.’ ‘And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.’ Acts 2:17, 21.

“The great work of the gospel is not to close with less manifestation of the power of God than marked its opening. The prophecies which were fulfilled in the outpouring of the former rain at the opening of the gospel are again to be fulfilled in the latter rain at its close. Here are ‘the times of refreshing’ to which the apostle Peter looked forward when he said: ‘Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and He shall send Jesus.’ Acts 3:19, 20.” The Great Controversy, 611.

The history of Pentecost, the Millerites and the latter rain were just cited. They are all identified by Inspiration as a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel, and we were just informed directly that “the prophecies which were fulfilled in the outpouring of the former rain at the opening of the gospel are again to be fulfilled in the latter rain at its close.” One of those prophecies was Joel.

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call. Joel 2:28–32.

When Joel’s prophecy was fulfilled at Pentecost, did God’s people recognize it as the fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel?

Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:13–21.

At Pentecost God’s people recognized the outpouring of God’s Spirit as a fulfillment of Joel and they also understood that it was a prophetic fulfillment in connection with a change of dispensation. Did not Peter know that it was Pentecost? He certainly did. Did He know that Pentecost marked the beginning of Christ’s work in the Holy Place of the Heavenly sanctuary? He certainly did, for the outpouring of the Spirit on Pentecost was the “token” that Christ had changed dispensations from the earthly to heavenly sanctuary.

“Christ’s ascension to heaven was the signal that His followers were to receive the promised blessing. For this they were to wait before they entered upon their work. When Christ passed within the heavenly gates, He was enthroned amidst the adoration of the angels. As soon as this ceremony was completed, the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in rich currents, and Christ was indeed glorified, even with the glory which He had with the Father from all eternity. The Pentecostal outpouring was Heaven’s communication that the Redeemer’s inauguration was accomplished. According to His promise He had sent the Holy Spirit from heaven to His followers as a token that He had, as priest and king, received all authority in heaven and on earth, and was the Anointed One over His people.” Acts of the Apostles. 38.

Webster’s Dictionary of Sister White’s time period defines “token” as another word for a sign.

TOKEN, n. to’kn. [L. signum, dialetically varied, or from the same radix.]

1. A sign; something intended to represent or indicate another thing or an event. Thus the rainbow is a token of God’s covenant established with Noah. The blood of the paschal lamb, sprinkled on the doors of the Hebrews, was a token to the destroying angel of God’s will that he should pass by those houses. Genesis 9:12–13; Exodus 12:13.

Show me a token for good. Psalm 86:17.

So the outpouring of the Spirit at Pentecost was the “sign” of a change in dispensation, and it was recognized as taking place in connection with the fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel.

Did the Millerites recognize and identify that their history was a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel? In a summary of his book titled Last Day Tokens, John Loughborough states on page 193 and 194,

“1. Nearing the time when the signs in the sun, moon, and stars were to appear, there was seen in the heavens the fiery display of the aurora borealis, as predicted by the prophet Joel.

“2. The knowledge of the close of the prophetic periods announced by Daniel the prophet, remained ‘sealed up’ till ‘the time of the end’—1798.

“3. Immediately after 1798, men in different parts of the world, independently of each other, learned that the period of the twenty-three hundred days closed in the year 1844. Thus was the statement verified that ‘many’ would obtain ‘knowledge’ on the great prophetic period, which had previously been ‘sealed up.’

“4. Our Saviour said of the signs in the sun, moon, and stars, that when they are fulfilled, then we may know that we are in the generation that is to witness His coming. The sign in the stars—1833—marked then the Lord’s time for the parable of the fig-tree to be learned. He then raised up His teachers, who taught the parable to the world.

“5. When the sixth trumpet should cease its sounding, the time message was to increase in power to its ‘loud voice.’ From that date—1840—the message stirred the public mind, and rapidly spread to every known seaport, and the sound went throughout the world.”

Loughborough teaches in his book titled Heavenly Visions, that the manifestation the Spirit of Prophecy, not only with Ellen White, but also with Hazen Foss and William Foy was a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel. I will cite only one brief reference for he repeats continuously that the Holy Spirit was poured out in the time of the Millerites in fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel.

“At the time the Saviour was taken to the temple to have made for Him the required offering, the devoted Simeon recognized Him as the promised Messiah. And there was also present upon that occasion Anna, a prophetess, who dwelt in the temple—probably in the ‘college,’ or ‘school,’ as did Huldah. Thus it is evident that when Peter on the day of Pentecost—in harmony with Joel’s prophecy—declared that as a result of the outpouring of the Spirit, the ‘handmaidens’ and ‘daughters’ should prophesy, it was not a strange thing to the church to learn that women should share in the prophetic gift in the gospel age…

“We learn through the promise made by the prophet Joel that the Holy Spirit should be poured out in the last days. But let us see what is to be the result when that Spirit is poured out: ‘And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophecy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions.’ Joel 2:28.

“On the day of Pentecost, Peter quoted this from the prophecy of Joel, showing that the promise there made was beginning to receive its accomplishment. He said: ‘For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit: and they shall prophesy: and I will show wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: the sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come.’ Acts 2:15–20.” Heavenly Vision, 11, 16.

Was there a change in dispensation in the Millerite history? Did the Millerites recognize the change? No, not until after the change in dispensation occurred, but they then proclaimed the change of dispensation. Why did they not recognize the change of ministration as Peter and the disciples did at Pentecost? There was a specific purpose in God’s plan to prevent them from understanding the change until it happened in order to accomplish a testing process, which in the time of Peter had been accomplished with the history of the cross.

“The special light given to John which was expressed in the seven thunders was a delineation of events which would transpire under the first and second angels’ messages. It was not best for the people to know these things, for their faith must necessarily be tested. In the order of God most wonderful and advanced truths would be proclaimed. The first and second angels’ messages were to be proclaimed, but no further light was to be revealed before these messages had done their specific work. This is represented by the angel standing with one foot on the sea, proclaiming with a most solemn oath that time should be no longer.” The Seventh-day Adventists Bible Commentary, volume 7, 971.

In the first fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel (Pentecost) God’s people recognized that the Holy Spirit was being poured out in fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy and proclaimed that very fact. That fulfillment marked a change of ministration in the work of Christ as High Priest, and that outpouring was a “token” or a sign or signal. The disciples experienced a test in regard to a misunderstanding of the cross, which preceded the Pentecostal outpouring.

In the second fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel (the Millerites) God’s people recognized that the Holy Spirit was being poured out in fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy and proclaimed that very fact. The fulfillment took place in connection with a change of ministration in the work of Christ as High Priest. The Millerites experienced a test in regard to a misunderstanding of the sanctuary and what would happen on October 22, 1844, which marked the conclusion of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit for that time.

Both these histories were the fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel and prefigure the perfect fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel in our day and age. Upon the testimony of two, when the latter rain arrives, God’s people will recognize this fact. They will proclaim that the arrival of the latter rain is a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel, that the arrival of the latter rain marks a change in ministration, or dispensation of the work of Christ as our High Priest and that the arrival is a token or a sign.

When Peter proclaimed that the time had arrived, he did so in the midst of a controversy. Those rejecting the prophetic fulfillment were proclaiming that Peter and the other men were drunk with new wine. This was a fulfillment of the prophecy of Joel, for the introduction of Joel marks the issue of the “new wine.”

The word of the Lord that came to Joel the son of Pethuel. Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers? Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation. That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpillar eaten. Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine, for it is cut off from your mouth. Joel 1:1–5.

All the prophets are identifying the end of the world; and Joel is speaking to and about Adventism at the end of the world. We are informed that Adventism’s experience is illustrated with the parable of the ten virgins.

“The parable of the ten virgins of Matthew 25, also illustrates the experience of the Adventist people.” The Great Controversy, 393.

The prophets all agree with one another.

And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 1 Corinthians 14:32.

Therefore when Matthew records the parable of the ten virgins, and Sister White thereafter comments upon that very parable, they provide two witnesses concerning prophetic history which relates to the end of the world.

“The parable of the ten virgins of Matthew 25, also illustrates the experience of the Adventist people….Chapter 25 opens with the words, ‘Then shall the kingdom of Heaven be likened unto ten virgins.’ Here is brought to view the church living in the last days, the same that is pointed out in the close of chapter 24.” The Great Controversy, 393.

All the prophets agree; therefore what awakens Joel’s “drunkards” at the end of the world is the Midnight Cry. Joel identifies that his prophecy is applicable when the Midnight Cry is repeated at the end of the world.

“My mind was carried to the future, when the signal will be given. ‘Behold, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.’ But some will have delayed to obtain the oil for replenishing their lamps, and too late they will find that character, which is represented by the oil, is not transferable.” Review and Herald, February 11, 1896.

What awakens Joel’s drunkards is the Midnight Cry at the end of the world, and the Midnight Cry at the end of the world is our sign or token, just as the outpouring of the Pentecostal rain in the time of Peter was identified as a “sign” or token. From the Webster’s Dictionary of Sister White’s day and age we find the definition of the word “signal.”

SIGNAL, n. [L. signum.] A sign that gives or is intended to give notice; or the notice given. Signals are used to communicate notice, information, orders and the like, to persons at a distance, and by any persons and for the purpose. A signal may be a motion of the hand, the raising of a flag, the firing of a gun, or any thing which, being understood by persons at a distance, may communicate notice.

The outpouring of the Spirit during Pentecost and at the Midnight Cry at the end of the world is identified as a “sign.” The drunkards in Joel’s prophecy miss the sign of the outpouring of the Spirit of God, which Joel aptly identifies as the “new wine.”

According to Joel, the new wine is cut off from the drunkard’s mouths when Adventism’s cup of probation has been filled up. Joel conveys the close of probation by twice referencing that his prophecy takes place in the fourth generation. He states, “Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers? Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.”

For an old man to tell his children, and then for those children to tell their children, and then for their children to inform one more generation equates to four generations. Joel provides a second witness to the four generations when he identifies a fourfold progressive destruction of modern Israel (Adventism) by citing the sequential work of four insects. What the “palmerworm hath left” “the locust” ate, and what the locust missed, “the cankerworm” consumed, and what “the cankerworm” “left” “the caterpillar” ate. Four generations marked by four progressive judgments; and the fourth generation is a prophetic symbol within God’s word which marks the end of probationary time.

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. Exodus 20:5.

But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. Genesis 15:16.

“Of the Amorites the Lord said: ‘In the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.’ Although this nation was conspicuous because of its idolatry and corruption, it had not yet filled up the cup of its iniquity, and God would not give command for its utter destruction. The people were to see the divine power manifested in a marked manner, that they might be left without excuse. The compassionate Creator was willing to bear with their iniquity until the fourth generation. Then, if no change was seen for the better, His judgments were to fall upon them.

“With unerring accuracy the Infinite One still keeps an account with all nations. While His mercy is tendered with calls to repentance, this account will remain open; but when the figures reach a certain amount which God has fixed, the ministry of His wrath commences. The account is closed. Divine patience ceases. There is no more pleading of mercy in their behalf.

“The prophet, looking down the ages, had this time presented before his vision. The nations of this age have been the recipients of unprecedented mercies. The choicest of heaven’s blessings have been given them, but increased pride, covetousness, idolatry, contempt of God, and base ingratitude are written against them. They are fast closing up their account with God.

“But that which causes me to tremble is the fact that those who have had the greatest light and privileges have become contaminated by the prevailing iniquity. Influenced by the unrighteous around them, many, even of those who profess the truth, have grown cold and are borne down by the strong current of evil. The universal scorn thrown upontrue piety and holiness leads those who do not connect closely with God to lose their reverence for His law. If they were following the light and obeying the truth from the heart, this holy law would seem even more precious to them when thus despised and set aside. As the disrespect for God’s law becomes more manifest, the line of demarcation between its observers and the world becomes more distinct. Love for the divine precepts increases with one class according as contempt for them increases with another class.

“The crisis is fast approaching. The rapidly swelling figures show that the time for God’s visitation has about come. Although loath to punish, nevertheless He will punish, and that speedily. Those who walk in the light will see signs of the approaching peril; but they are not to sit in quiet, unconcerned expectancy of the ruin, comforting themselves with the belief that God will shelter His people in the day of visitation. Far from it. They should realize that it is their duty to labor diligently to save others, looking with strong faith to God for help. ‘The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.’

“The leaven of godliness has not entirely lost its power. At the time when the danger and depression of the church are greatest, the little company who are standing in the light will be sighing and crying for the abominations that are done in the land. But more especially will their prayers arise in behalf of the church because its members are doing after the manner of the world. “The earnest prayers of this faithful few will not be in vain. When the Lord comes forth as an avenger, He will also come as a protector of all those who have preserved the faith in its purity and kept themselves unspotted from the world. It is at this time that God has promised to avenge His own elect which cry day and night unto Him, though He bear long with them.

“The command is: ‘Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.’ These sighing, crying ones had been holding forth the words of life; they had reproved, counseled, and entreated. Some who had been dishonoring God repented and humbled their hearts before Him. But the glory of the Lord had departed from Israel; although many still continued the forms of religion, His power and presence were lacking. “In the time when His wrath shall go forth in judgments, these humble, devoted followers of Christ will be distinguished from the rest of the world by their soul anguish, which is expressed in lamentation and weeping, reproofs and warnings. While others try to throw a cloak over the existing evil, and excuse the great wickedness everywhere prevalent, those who have a zeal for God’s honor and a love for souls will not hold their peace to obtain favor of any. Their righteous souls are vexed day by day with the unholy works and conversation of the unrighteous. They are powerless to stop the rushing torrent of iniquity, and hence they are filled with grief and alarm. They mourn before God to see religion despised in the very homes of those who have had great light. They lament and afflict their souls because pride, avarice, selfishness, and deception of almost every kind are in the church. The Spirit of God, which prompts to reproof, is trampled underfoot, while the servants of Satan triumph. God is dishonored, the truth made of none effect.

“The class who do not feel grieved over their own spiritual declension, nor mourn over the sins of others, will be left without the seal of God. The Lord commissions His messengers, the men with slaughtering weapons in their hands: ‘Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.’

“Here we see that the church—Lord’s sanctuary—was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God’s power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus ‘Peace and safety’ is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God’s people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together.” Testimonies, volume 5, 208–211.

My brother it is time for you to allow the Spirit of God to put these concepts in order. Judgment begins with the house of God.

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17.

You have no spiritual authority to disregard that Peter here states not only that judgment begins with Adventism, but he identifies that it begins at an appointed time. When the time to judge Adventism arrives, it will occur when Adventism, who is identified as the nation of modern Israel, has filled her probationary cup. God’s people drink the cup of God’s judgment first.

For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands. For thus saith the Lord God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it. And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them. Then took I the cup at the Lord’s hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the Lord had sent me: To wit, Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and the kings thereof, and the princes thereof, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, an hissing, and a curse; as it is this day. Jeremiah 25:14–18.

Jerusalem—Adventism drinks the wine cup first. Adventism is first judged and it takes place in the fourth generation when Adventism’s cup of iniquity is filled to its brim. This point in time is identified as the “time of God’s visitation,” for Sister White stated, “The rapidly swelling figures show that the time for God’s visitation has about come. Although loath to punish, nevertheless He will punish, and that speedily. Those who walk in the light will see signs of the approaching peril.”

It is “the time” not only of Peter’s judgment that begins with Adventism, but also “the time of God’s visitation.” When that “time” arrives, it is the time of the sealing of the one-hundred and forty-four thousand for she informed us that this “time” is represented by Ezekiel nine where the sealing angel places a mark upon those that sigh and cry. But in the same passage she informs us that those who reject the seal of God do so because, “they had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God’s power as in former days,” for they say, “Times have changed.”

They take the position that the fulfillment of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit located in the book of Joel that was fulfilled with “miracles and the marked manifestation of God’s power” at Pentecost and in the Millerite history would not now again occur, for “times had changed.” But those who receive the seal of God are represented as those “who walk in the light” and “will see signs of the approaching peril.” To see a sign is to recognize it! One thing that took place at Pentecost and in the Millerite history is that God’s people recognized and proclaimed that the prophecy of Joel had arrived, and the prophecy of Joel identifies the “times” of both the “refreshing” and “restitution.” These “times” of Joel are also Peter’s time of judgment, and also the time of God’s visitation. And what did Christ say about the time of visitation to the men and women of His generation?

And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought; Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves. And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him, And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear him. Luke 19:41–48.

God’s people in Christ’s time drank the cup of God’s indignation because they knew not the “time of their visitation.” We are required to recognize the “time” of our visitation! If we do not we will be destroyed.

When Christ set forth the significance of knowing the time of our visitation He immediately thereafter began to cleanse the temple. On September 11, 2001 the mighty angel of Revelation eighteen descended, the latter rain began to sprinkle, the sealing of the one-hundred and forty-four thousand began and the times of the refreshing, restitution, judgment and our visitation arrived. At that time, the first of two specific end-of-the-world temple cleansings began. We are required to recognize this fact, or we will die.

After the dove descended upon Christ at His baptism, He was then tested in the wilderness for forty days, which thereafter he performed the first of two temple cleansings. The second temple cleansing occurred at the end of His three and a half years of personal ministry.

When the angel of Revelation ten descended on August 11, 1840 empowering the first angel’s message and paralleling the descending dove in Christ’s history, the first temple cleansing of the Millerite history arrived and the Protestant churches closed their doors against that message beginning in June of 1842. Then at the Midnight Cry in the summer of 1844 the Spirit was poured out and the second temple cleansing of that history took place.

When Christ cleansed the temple here on earth he did so according to Sister White by flashing His divinity through His humanity. On August 11, 1840 the angel of Revelation ten, who we are informed is no less a personage than Jesus Christ descended and divinity flashed through humanity until the process was marked as concluded with the closing of the doors of the Protestant churches. At the Midnight Cry in the summer of 1844 the Holy Spirit was poured upon the Millerites, and the Lord does not pour His Spirit upon corrupt individuals, so for a second time in that history divinity flashed through humanity and the cleansing process continued until the door into the Holy Place was closed.

On September 11, 2001 the mighty angel of Revelation eighteen descended at the first of two end-of-the-world temple cleansings began, but unlike the Millerite history the temple cleansing that begins with the descent of an angel marks the testing and cleansing of the house of God. The testing or cleansing continues until the door closes at the Sunday law, at which point the Holy Spirit is poured out without measure upon a church that has been previously tested and then purified at the Sunday law and for a second time in this history divinity flashes through humanity as Adventists with the seal of God perfectly present the character of Christ to a dying world as the second of two end-of-time temple cleansings begins, only to end when Michael stands up and the door of human probation closes.

The Bible informs us that when this time arrives there will be a shaking within Adventism that has been illustrated in a number of places and ways. Joel represents this argument in terms of drunkenness. Those who are Joel’s drunkards are those whom have had the new wine cut off from their mouths. It is cut off from their mouths because they do not recognize the new wine as new light.

“The teaching of Christ, though it was represented by the new wine, was not a new doctrine, but the revelation of that which had been taught from the beginning. But to the Pharisees the truth of God had lost its original significance and beauty. To them Christ’s teaching was new in almost every respect, and it was unrecognized and unacknowledged.” The Desire of Ages, 279.

The experience in the time of Christ applies to Adventism today.

“Why could not the old bottles contain the new wine? Why were the lessons of Jesus refused? The life of Christ should have been a constant inspiration. But the scribes and Pharisees refused him, because they allowed pride, ambition, and bigotry to stand in their way. Jesus did not follow the teachings of the schools; he did not copy any living model, nor draw his lessons from any earthly source. His teachings were simplicity itself, so clear that a child could understand them, so deep that the prejudiced Pharisees and priests could not comprehend them. No one but a heavenly teacher could present so lofty a morality in such simple words, making his sayings applicable to the necessities of all. The brightness of the Father’s glory was revealed in the face of Jesus Christ. But the old bottles could not contain the precious new wine. The bigoted Pharisees, scribes, and rulers had no preference for the new wine; they were filled with the old, and, until emptied of the old traditions, old customs, old practices, they had no place in mind or heart for the truth of Christ.

“In the question, ‘What shall we do that we might work the works of God?’ the attitude of scribes and Pharisees is set forth; for the question meant, What shall we do to deserve heaven? Mark the answer of Christ: ‘This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom he hath sent.’ The price of heaven is the Messiah. The way to heaven is Christ. ‘This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom he hath sent.’ But the Pharisees scoffed at his doctrine, and the Sadducees derided him.

“The most precious truth could find no harmony with the false theories and commandments of men. But the common people, who were not filled with the wine of superstition and tradition, heard him gladly. They recognized the heavenly power of his teaching, and were charmed with the new truth concerning his kingdom. Many, many, found the living Bread that came down from heaven, and drank of the living Water. Their hungry souls were satisfied with heavenly manna, and refreshed with the streams of salvation. In their acceptance of his doctrine, they proved the truth of his words, ‘My sheep know my voice, and they follow me.’

“Let it not be with us who are living in the last days as it was with the Pharisees. Let it not be said of us, as it was of them, that new wine cannot be put into old bottles. Let not those who have been long in the truth, who have been made the depositaries of the law of God, exalt the ideas and opinions of men above the advancing truth of heaven, lest they be left as old, withered bottles, whose place will be filled by new bottles which the Lord shall select for the new wine. We must be in a position where we shall ever have an appetite for the fresh manna, for the new wine of heaven.

“Let all beware lest they imitate the example of the Jews, and, fearing they must give up some cherished idea, or discard some idol of opinion, refuse the truth which cometh down from the Father of lights. It was adherence to tradition that proved the ruin of the Jews, and will prove the ruin of many, many souls in every age. Let us fear to become satisfied, with that which we already have acquired, but ever advance with the light, that Jesus may not have to cast us aside as worthless bottles, when he would present to us new truth.” Signs of the Times, September 19, 1892.

The prophecy of Joel introduces not only the truth concerning the outpouring of the Spirit of God and the signs associated with that event, Joel also marks that the outpouring is accomplished when probation is closing. In the time of Pentecost probation was closing for ancient Israel while the Lord was entering into covenant with His Christian Church. In the time of the Millerites probation was closing for the Christian Church while the Lord was entering into covenant with modern Israel. The conclusion of the probationary time is referenced with the four generations and the progressive deterioration of God’s people as represented by the work of the four insects.

Joel also identifies the controversy that always ensues when the time of the refreshing arrives in history by employing the symbolism of the new wine and the drunkards that reject the new wine. NR is rejecting the new wine for a variety of false premises, but you have latched on to simply one. He and you claim that Sister White states that we will never know when the latter rain arrives, which of course is an absolute denial of several references from her writings that are already cited in this e-mail that teach just the opposite. You cite the following passage and misrepresent what is therein taught.

“Solemn are the scenes connected with the closing work of the atonement. Momentous are the interests involved therein. The judgment is now passing in the sanctuary above. For many years this work has been in progress. Soon—none know how soon—it will pass to the cases of the living. In the awful presence of God our lives are to come up in review. At this time above all others it behooves every soul to heed the Saviour’s admonition: ‘Watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.’ Mark 13:33. ‘If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.’ Revelation 3:3.” The Great Controversy, 490.

NR, you and others take this passage and turn it upside down. When it is stated that “Soon— none know how soon” the judgment “will pass to the cases of the living” it is making no reference whatsoever as to whether or not we will know once the judgment of the living begins. It is simply and directly claiming that it would be impossible to identify in advance when the judgment of the living would begin.

When a prophetic sign is marked by Inspiration God’s people are required to recognize it. In Luke twenty-one in response to the question of the disciples presented to Jesus concerning the sign of the destruction of the temple, He set forth a parable.

And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Luke 21:29–36.

In connection with not knowing how soon the judgment of the living would begin Sister White stated, “‘Watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.’ Mark 13:33. ‘If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.’ Revelation 3:3.”

In the parable of Luke twenty-one we are also counseled to “watch.” If you don’t watch “that day” will “come upon” us “unawares.” What day is Jesus warning will come upon us unaware? The disciples had asked as specific question which he was answering.

And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And they asked him, saying, Master,but when [time] shall these things be? and what sign will there be when [time] these things shall come to pass? Luke 21:5–7.

We are to watch in order to escape the events that are represented by the destruction of the temple. Jesus warned that if we are drunk we will not see the sign identifying that the temple was going to be overthrown. He answered the disciples question by pointing them to the budding trees of spring, which of course bud out in the springtime because of the arrival of the latter rain. Sister White provides a second testimony to this fact.

“Christ had bidden His people watch for the signs of His advent and rejoice as they should behold the tokens of their coming King. ‘When these things begin to come to pass,’ He said, ‘then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.’ He pointed His followers to the budding trees of spring, and said: ‘When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.’ Luke 21:28, 30, 31….

“When the Saviour pointed out to His followers the signs of His return, He foretold the state of backsliding that would exist just prior to His second advent. There would be, as in the days of Noah, the activity and stir of worldly business and pleasure seeking— buying, selling, planting, building, marrying, and giving in marriage—with forgetfulness of God and the future life. For those living at this time, Christ’s admonition is: ‘Take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.’ ‘Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.’ Luke 21:34, 36.

“The condition of the church at this time is pointed out in the Saviour’s words in the Revelation: ‘Thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.’ And to those who refuse to arouse from their careless security, the solemn warning is addressed: ‘If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.’ Revelation 3:1, 3.” The Great Controversy, 308–309.

Isn’t it curious that the same passage from Revelation three is cited in this previous passage as was cited in the passage which you and NR turn upside down? The watching in this passage is clearly a command to look for the sign of Christ’s return that is identified as the sign that cause the trees to bud out in the springtime. We are to watch for the sign that marks the arrival of the latter rain and you suggest just the opposite, though both passages define the “watching we are to do” as fulfilling Revelation three.

You set up a private interpretation of the passage that states: “Soon—none know how soon—it will pass to the cases of the living. In the awful presence of God our lives are to come up in review. At this time above all others it behooves every soul to heed the Saviour’s admonition: ‘Watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.’ Mark 13:33. ‘If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.’ Revelation 3:3,” and suggest that this admonition to “watch” does not include recognizing the sign of the latter rain, that also marks the beginning of the judgment of the living. Upside down!

My Brother, that which causes the trees to bud in the springtime is the latter rain.

Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the Lord your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. Joel 2:23.

The first month biblically is March, which is the springtime. The summer is the harvest.

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. Matthew 13:39.

The sign which marks the budding trees is the latter rain which begins when the mighty angel of Revelation eighteen descends and the sealing of the one-hundred and forty-four thousand commences. The springtime arrives when the angel descends and the summer arrives at the Sunday law when the great harvest gets under way. The spring and the summer represent the times, in the plural of the latter rain or the refreshing. The springtime is when the latter rain sprinkles upon the wise virgins of Adventism and the summer is where the latter rain is poured out without measure upon a church that has just changed from the church militant unto the church triumphant.

Only those in Adventism that recognize that the prophecy of Joel began its final and perfect fulfillment on September 11, 2001 will receive the sprinkling that is absolutely required in order to partake of the full outpouring of the Holy Spirit at the Sunday law.

You and NR and others will certainly claim that I and those who are now presenting these truths are drunk and deluded, but that is of course what Joel identified in connection with his prophecy; and it is the identical argument that Peter had to meet when the prophecy of Joel was fulfilled at Pentecost. You need to re-evaluate your conclusions in the light of God’s Word before the new wine is cut off from your mouth. We are now living within the time of Adventism’s visitation and it is absolutely a life and death requirement that we recognize this fact.

I have left a great deal out of the defense of September 11, 2001; but I did so knowing that I had already started a response to an email from a friend in England that covers some of the other issues I would present in defense of this truth. When I finish that email I will forward it to you. Greetings to your wife and the brethren in Chile. Jeff Pippenger.

Hi Jeff,

Trusting you made it home safely. I enjoyed your fellowship this past weekend. I came across some quotes and I have a question in regards to your presentation of the “Judgment of the Living” beginning on 9-11. In searching the Spirit of Prophecy for light on this subject I found this following quote:

“Solemn are the scenes connected with the closing work of the atonement. Momentous are the interests involved therein. The judgment is now passing in the sanctuary above. For more than sixty years this work has been in progress. Soon -none know how soonit will pass to the cases of the living. In the awful presence of God our lives are to come up in review. At this time above all others it behooves every soul to heed the Saviour’s admonition, ‘Watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.’ ‘If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.’ The Gospel Herald, August 1, 1910.

It also appears that if any date would be the one for the Judgment of the Living it would be the National Sunday Law. Here is the quote that seems to prove this prior statement:

“The Lord has shown me clearly that the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes; for it is to be the great test for the people of God, by which their eternal destiny will be decided… (Rev. 13:11-17 quoted.) This is the test that the people of God must have before they are sealed.” Bible Commentary, vol. 7, 976.

What is your thought on these truths that I have found? JL.

Response 

Dear JL,

Your first quote does not say that we will never know that it has started, but that none could predict how soon it would start, or how much time before it began. She has statements where she says, “Who knows if the judgment of the living has not already began?” She does not say we will not know once it begins, but that we could not know in advance.

“What are you doing, brethren, in the great work of preparation? Those who are uniting with the world are receiving the worldly mold and preparing for the mark of the beast. Those who are distrustful of self, who are humbling themselves before God and purifying their souls by obeying the truth these are receiving the heavenly mold and preparing for the seal of God in their foreheads. When the decree goes forth and the stamp is impressed, their character will remain pure and spotless for eternity.

“Now is the time to prepare. The seal of God will never be placed upon the forehead of an impure man or woman. It will never be placed upon the forehead of the ambitious, world-loving man or woman. It will never be placed upon the forehead of men or women of false tongues or deceitful hearts. All who receive the seal must be without spot before God–candidates for heaven. Go forward, my brethren and sisters. I can only write briefly upon these points at this time, merely calling your attention to the necessity of preparation. Search the Scriptures for yourselves, that you may understand the fearful solemnity of the present hour. “Testimonies, vol. 5, 216.

Concerning your second quote; God’s people are sealed at the Sunday law, not before. The very quote you are citing states this very fact: “the image of the beast will be formed before probation closes.”

The image of the beast test is the second of three tests. The third test is where we are sealed, and that is the Sunday law test. It is at this third test that probation closes and the image of the beast is a test that precedes the Sunday law test. How many tests did the Millerites have? Three. How many tests did Christ have? Three. How many tests did ancient Israel have in the time of Christ? Three. See Early Writings,

259. We also have three tests. The second is the image of the beast and this is the test we must pass before probation closes at the Sunday law, and this is the test by which our eternal destiny is decided, for if we fail this test we are unprepared for the Sunday test. Jeff.

Brother SW,

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 1 Corinthians 15:44–46.

When Christ arrives (the second Adam) it changes to spiritual. I also try and point out that it is not a direct break at the cross. There were still Old Testament prophecies that were to be fulfilled literally, such as the destruction of Jerusalem. I also like to use Luke 21:5–6.

And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

I then go to 1 Peter 2:5–6.

Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Here we find Jesus pointing to the literal stones of the temple, and then Peter identifying the new Christians as living stones in the temple. From there I go to Paul in Galatians.

For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Galatians 4:22–26.

Paul here teaches that the new covenant with the Christian Church has been prefigured in type by the covenant with ancient Israel, and that literal Jerusalem for ancient Israel was prefiguring spiritual Jerusalem for spiritual Israel (the Christian Church). I then add the offspring of Abraham.

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. Galatians 3:7–9.

In the time period of the cross literal Jerusalem is set aside for spiritual Jerusalem, the old covenant with literal Israel is replaced with the new covenant with spiritual Israel and the literal sons of Abraham are replaced with the spiritual sons of Abraham. This time period is marked when the second Adam, who is spiritual, arrives into history. Jeff.

Dear Jeff,

What evidence is there that Miller received his credentials in 1833?

I’ve heard you state that many times but never caught the reference. I have been invited to share Luke 21 again before a small group tonight and just wanted to nail that down. Thanks. WS https://ed-danmark.com/koeb-…ra-online/.

Response

Dear WS,

“In 1833 Miller received a license to preach, from the Baptist Church, of which he was a member. A large number of the ministers of his denomination also approved his work, and it was with their formal sanction that he continued his labors. He traveled and preached unceasingly, though his personal labors were confined principally to the New England and Middle States. For several years his expenses were met wholly from his own private purse, and he never afterward received enough to meet the expense of travel to the places where he was invited. Thus his public labors, so far from being a pecuniary benefit, were a heavy tax upon his property, which gradually diminished during this period of his life. He was the father of a large family, but as they were all frugal and industrious, his farm sufficed for their maintenance as well as his own.” The Great Controversy, 332. Jeff.

Dear friend,

The parable of the ten virgins of Matthew 25 also illustrates the experience of the Adventist people.” The Great Controversy, 393.

“When the third angel’s message is preached as it should be, power attends its proclamation, and it becomes an abiding influence. It must be attended with divine power, or it will accomplish nothing. I am often referred to the parable of the ten virgins, five of whom were wise, and five foolish. This parable has been and will be fulfilled to the very letter, for it has a special application to this time, and, like the third angel’s message, has been fulfilled and will continue to be present truth till the close of time. In the parable, the ten virgins had lamps, but only five of them had the saving oil with which to keep their lamps burning. This represents the condition of the Church. The wise and the foolish have their Bibles, and are provided with all the means of grace; but many do not appreciate the fact that they must have the heavenly unction. They do not heed the invitation, ‘Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.’” Review and Herald, August 19, 1890.

“There is a world lying in wickedness, in deception, and delusion, in the very shadow of death, asleep, asleep. Who are feeling travail of soul to awaken them? What voice can reach them? My mind is carried to the future when the signal will be given, ‘Behold the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him.’ But some will have delayed to obtain the oil for replenishing their lamps, and too late they will find that character, which is represented by the oil, is not transferable. That oil is the righteousness of Christ. It represents character, and character is not transferable. No man can secure it for another. Each must obtain for himself a character purified from every stain of sin. The Lord is coming in power and great glory. It will then be His work to make a complete separation between the righteous and the wicked. But the oil cannot then be transferred to the vessels of those who have it not. Then shall be fulfilled the words of Christ, ‘Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.’ The righteous and the wicked are to be associated together in the work of life. But the Lord reads the character, He discerns who are obedient children, who respect and love His commandments. Bible Echo, May 4, 1896.

“The parable of the ten virgins was given by Christ Himself, and every specification should be carefully studied. A time will come when the door will be shut. We are represented either by the wise or the foolish virgins. We cannot now distinguish, nor have we authority to say, who are wise and who foolish. There are those who hold the truth in unrighteousness, and these appear outwardly like the wise.” Manuscript Releases, volume 16, 271.

There are others, but these are unshakable. Hope this helps. Jeff.

Jeff,

In the April 2006 Future News, you referred to the “first disappointment in March of 1844” (page 23) yet we know the Millerites were predicting—and expecting—Christ’s return in 1843, also (not sure which month). When Christ did not come in 1843, would that not have been the “first disappointment,” followed by a second one in March 1844, and then ultimately by the Great Disappointment? And if that is the case, were there not 2 tarrying times? Were there not 2 times when Christ revealed additional truth so the message could proceed? (Missing year in 1843 calculation; Artaxerxes decree in fall, not spring) I cannot figure this out; please explain.

And where might one find the 3 final tests of Adventism identified as final tests (so it’s not just “my” words to others).

1. Acceptance or rejection of SOP
2. Acceptance or rejection of church-state alliance (ecumenical movement, tolerance, silence and inaction in face of danger, etc.)
3. Sunday law

Thanks for taking time for one more question. I pray often that those of you who discern and share understanding of present truth be prospered, protected, and strengthened. God bless you.

Response

Greetings, I have been overseas, and now will attempt to answer a few emails. 1843 was the year that the Millerites predicted that Daniel 8:14 was to be fulfilled. On the 1843 chart we see their reasoning in figure. The reality of their understanding though was that there is two Jewish reckonings of time. Miller chose the Karaite reckoning of time. (I am not sure on the spelling of Karaite). But in any case the Millerites predicted 1843, but they believed that 1843 began on March 21 and continued until March 21, 1844. In reality the Millerites held out hope that the Lord would return until March 22, 1844, though we correctly identify that they had predicted 1843. 1843 for the Millerites ended March 21, 1844, and on the next day the first disappointment arrived.

Concerning the three tests, we must remember that there is only one group of people that will understand end-time Bible prophecy. The wise will understand, but the foolish or wicked will not. I say this because there is no specific inspired statement that pinpoints the three tests as you asked. The three tests are very easy to see, if we are willing, but they will only be recognized by those who are willing to allow prophetic guidance to identify the tests. A good starting point for this understanding is a study we do called The Prophetic Pattern. To identify this truth is beyond the scope of an email, so I hope this helps. Jeff.

Jeff,

I had often wondered what the ‘disappointment’ would be for God’s people in the last days if we consider that the Millerite time period will be repeated. I think that the following quote helps us to see a highly probable explanation of the coming disappointment. What are your thoughts? WS.

“As the disciples were mistaken in regard to the kingdom to be set up at the end of the seventy weeks, so Adventists were mistaken in regard to the event to take place at the expiration of the 2300 days. In both cases there was an acceptance of, or rather an adherence to, popular errors that blinded the mind to the truth. Both classes fulfilled the will of God in delivering the message which He desired to be given, and both, through their own misapprehension of their message, suffered disappointment.” The Great Controversy, 352.

Response

Brother WS,

I cannot be sure, for when the disappointment is illustrated in prophetic history, as it is in several places, those who are disappointed never seemed to understand it in advance. We are required to know there is a disappointment coming, for this is evident in Revelation ten.

That being said, I have my best educated guess at what the disappointment will be, but it is only that. I believe the disappointment that happens to God’s people immediately after the arrival of the Sunday law is the recognition by those who are sealed that they are standing alone. First let me deal with Revelation ten.

Sister White tells us the seven thunders of verse four of Revelation ten represent the history of 1840 through 1844, and that the seven thunders also represent “future events that will be disclosed in their order”. The seven thunders represent the repetition of the Millerite time-period of 1840 through 1844, in the time-period when the 144,000 are developed. We are now in that time-period.

But the seven thunders, and therefore this truth of the repetition of that history and the Millerite history itself, has been sealed up, until here at the end of the world. The Millerites had the book of Daniel unsealed unto them, the 144,000 have the seven thunders unsealed. As Christ unseals this prophetic truth He is bringing to light some very profound understandings. Some of them are truths that we have held for 150 years that now have a different perspective.

For instance in verse ten, of Revelation ten, we have taught from the beginning of Adventism that John represented the Millerites in the verse. He had taken the book and ate it, and it was sweet in his mouth, but bitter in his stomach. This is a correct understanding, but it is only the secondary understanding, for John here is representing a people who knew in advance that the book would be sweet, but that it would become bitter. Verse nine is clear on that subject:

And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

John was told before it happened that the book would first be sweet and then become bitter. John represents the Millerite experience in a secondary sense, but in agreement with Revelation ten and the seven thunders, he primarily represents the 144,000 who are awakened by God’s prophetic word from their Laodicean experience, then prepare their characters for the seal of God, and at the Sunday law suffer a disappointment.

“If God has ever spoken by me, the time will come when you will be brought before councils, and every position of truth which you hold will be severely criticized.” Testimonies, volume 5, 716.

“It does not seem possible to us now that any should have to stand alone; but if God has ever spoken by me, the time will come when we shall be brought before councils and before thousands for his name’s sake, and each one will have to give the reason of his faith. Then will come the severest criticism upon every position that has been taken for the truth. We need, then, to study the word of God, that we may know why we believe the doctrines we advocate. We must critically search the living oracles of Jehovah.” Review and Herald, December 18, 1888. Jeff.

Brother D,

You asked me to read William Millers Lecture’s numbers 5 and 6, particularly you wanted me to look at page 83, in order for us to discuss them at a later time. I was to call you back on Sunday, after I had time to read them. I had read them a couple times before, but at the previous readings I was looking for some specific information, so I raced beyond some areas that I determined were not directly related to the specific topic I was looking at. Therefore, previously I did not read the entire lectures closely. Sunday, I pulled the lectures up from the Pioneer CD, and I took the time to copy and paste them into Microsoft Word. I then began to clean them up, and as I began that work I read them more closely. On Monday and Tuesday I returned to read them, and I now have them about fifty percent in mind and can think about them some. On Wednesday I left and email message for you to call, and now it is Friday morning and I have a different idea. I am going to put my thoughts into words, and email you the following thoughts about Miller’s Lectures, so you can look over some things before we go any further. By using this communication technique I can place our interaction into the newsletter, if anything of seeming interest my come out of our discussion. This will help me prioritize my time as well, for I want to write some things down before we leave for Germany on the 22^nd of December.

The first time I looked at these lectures I was trying to understand William Miller’s logic for identifying the beast that is numbered as 666 in Revelation 13:18. I could not agree with Miller on applying 666 to pagan Rome exclusively, but I was not threatened by his reasoning, for I thought and still think a case can be made that pagan and papal Rome are so closely paralleled to one another, that it would not threaten anything to see the number 666 associated with both pagan and papal Rome. I disagreed with Miller on 666 exclusively as pagan Rome, but was not threatened by his logic for making the conclusion about what the 666 represented in connection with numbering the kingdom of pagan Rome from the year 158 BC through 508 AD. Miller marks 158 as the time that the league was formed between the Jews and Rome. He insists that when a power in prophecy comes into contact with God’s people, it is then that they become a symbol in Bible prophecy. Miller then concludes the league made between the Jews and pagan Rome took place in 158. Many historians, and Uriah Smith place the league with the Jews in 161, but Miller sites a limited history to show 158 BC. By doing so he projects ahead in history 666 years and arrives at 508. He concludes that the paganism of Rome went for 666 years before it was removed in order to prepare the way for the papacy.

You and I know that Miller’s history is difficult to push to far, but I still believe it is an interesting consideration. In the Lectures you asked me to read, that include Miller’s reason on 666 there are other subjects addressed. These subjects are the one’s I previously passed over in these lectures. Now that I have looked at them I believe that Miller’s conclusions are generally false. He attempts to apply the prophetic characteristics of the United States in Revelation chapter thirteen to the papacy. He obviously did not recognize the role of the United States in Revelation thirteen. As he forces some things into that model, he also forces conclusions about Revelation seventeen into a pre-1844 fulfillment, and he misses many important end-time understandings.

I appreciate his connecting the time prophecies together under the umbrella of the twenty-three hundred year prophecy, and I recognize his powerful observations of the time period of 508. With this being stated, I will look forward to our future discussion. Jeff.

Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Jeremiah 6:16.

Hi Jeff,

My husband and I went to visit a SDA Reform Church this past Sabbath upon invitation from one of the members. We knew nothing about that church, so we went with open mind and a willing heart to learn what we could. We brought their version of the Review home to read some of the articles and find nothing out of sync with the SOP, but several things out of sync with our typical SDA church.

It seems that they hold fast to the original teachings of the pioneers and practice what they believe more so than in our church, just from what we saw on that brief encounter. Do you know much about this sector of our church and do you have any cautions as to what they may believe that would be of a concern? It’s disheartening to see how much compromise is in our churches today and we are just wondering how to deal with it. Do you have any counsel on this matter? N.

Response

Sister N,

The Reformed members I have met are generally very dedicated to reform and that is quite refreshing. They have several fundamental flaws in their reasoning. They believe in closed communion, though Ellen White disagrees. They make health reform a test of fellowship, though SOP disagrees. Their prophetic understanding is greatly flawed, as they take the passages that deal with the shaking at the Sunday law and the purification of the church at the Sunday law, and place them in the history of 1917, when they separated from the Adventist church. They teach and believe that they are the fourth angel, though the SOP teaches that when the fourth angel arrives it will be rapid, paralleling the midnight cry which lasted about two months, not almost one hundred years. They teach, (though covertly) that the SDA church is Babylon, and the SOP disagrees. They do uphold the reform aspects of Adventism much better than Adventism, but these are some of the problems with that offshoot. I purposely use the word offshoot, though not meaning to be derogatory towards them. In spite of the their zeal for some aspects of reform, their message is incorrect. Jeff.

I don’t really know why I am so fascinated with prophecy. But I do think that every Seventh-day Adventists is supposed to have that same kind of fascination. Sister White says it this way in Testimonies, volume 5, 708: “Whatever may be man’s intellectual advancement, let him not for a moment think that there is no need of thorough and continuous searching of the Scriptures for greater light. As a people we are called individually to be students of prophecy.”

In Selected Messages, volume 1, 121, Sister White tells us that our greatest need and our first work is to seek for a revival. And then on page 128 in the same passage she says: “Revival represents the renewal of spiritual life.” If our greatest need is for a revival, that means we are spiritually dead.

In Testimonies to Ministers, 113, she says: “When we understand the books of Daniel and Revelation as we should, there will be seen among us a great revival.” There is information in God’s prophetic word that brings the Laodicean church back to life at the end of the world. I hope my fascination with prophecy is something that the Holy Spirit has put in my heart. But I am certain that the Holy Spirit wants to put that same interest and fascination for prophecy in the heart of every Seventh-day Adventist; because if we are not students of prophecy we’ll never wake up and if we continue in our Laodicean condition, we are going to be spewed out of the mouth of the Lord.

I am not sure how to answer that. I believe the particular history we are living has been prefigured by the Millerite history, that the end of Adventism is illustrated in the beginning of Adventism. We know at the beginning of Adventism in the Millerite time period the prophecies of Daniel were unsealed in 1798. When this unsealing was identified in Daniel 12, it identified an increase of knowledge. The Millerites didn’t simply understand a single prophetic truth. The prophetic message they understood grew as they progressed through that history. I believe that history is been repeated now in the history of the 144,000 and the Lord continues to open up prophetic truths to His people here at the end. The Lord is building a complete picture of end time events. As I looked to these prophetic truths we may have a hundred hours of DVDs; we may have produced that many on these subjects I don’t know. But I’ve never thought that we have come close to presenting everything that we are seeing. The Lord is opening up the Bible to His people at this time. There is more information than any human being can possibly share.

One of the things about the Millerite history from what we understand is that in 1843 – what Miller understood in 1843 is not the same as he understood in 1818, when he began to study. Those 25 years expanded his understanding. And for us here at the end of the world the same thing is happening. What I came to realize recently is there is a statement, where Sister White says: At the end of the world, people have to learn in a few weeks that which we have been years learning. I am realizing now, one of the reasons there is a volume of information on this subject, it is for the Seventh-day Adventists that are currently coming to understand this prophetic message. They can take the materials that have been developed over the past 15 years and learn it in a very short period of time, whereas for some of us it’s taken years to get to this understanding.

Jeff,

I have a question maybe you can answer. What is a good reason for studying hard-to-understand portions of scripture such as the seals, trumpets, and plagues of Revelation or Daniel chapter 11? What are some strong biblical texts that tell us the importance of studying the prophecies in the Bible? To me it seems that if it’s God’s Word, we should be studying every nook and cranny of it, especially the areas we don’t understand! But many don’t agree with me on this. Instead most people tend to only want to study the parts that they understand and never move beyond that. Any comments would be deeply appreciated. Sincerely, BS.

Response

Dear BS,

The basic argument is that God’s people at the end of the world are asleep to their work, condition and responsibilities. Every prophecy that portrays God’s people at the end of time bears this testimony. The study of prophecy is the only avenue identified in inspiration to awaken God’s people. If we do not study prophecy, we sleep until we die. I am not giving you the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy passages that identify this truth, just giving you the logic. In The Great Controversy, Sister White says this:

“To John were opened scenes of deep and thrilling interest in the experience of the church. He saw the position, dangers, conflicts, and final deliverance of the people of God. He records the closing messages which are to ripen the harvest of the earth, either as sheaves for the heavenly garner or as fagots for the fires of destruction. Subjects of vast importance were revealed to him, especially for the last church, that those who should turn from error to truth might be instructed concerning the perils and conflicts before them. None need be in darkness in regard to what is coming upon the earth.” The Great Controversy, 341.

The book of Revelation contains the messages that ripen the harvest. The harvest is ripened by the latter rain. Therefore the messages of the book of Revelation ARE the latter rain messages. If we do not read, hear and keep those messages, we will be lost. Jeff.

Brother BK,

“The need is not filled by this book. It was my idea to have the two books bound together, Revelation following Daniel, as giving fuller light on the subjects dealt with in Daniel. The object is to bring these books together, showing that they both relate to the same subjects.” Publishing Ministry, 98.

“Many ministers make no effort to explain Revelation. They call it an unprofitable book to study. They regard it as a sealed book, because it contains the record of figures and symbols. But the very name that has been given it, ‘Revelation,’ is a denial of this supposition. Revelation is a sealed book, but it is also an opened book. It records marvelous events that are to take place in the last days of this earth’s history. The teachings of this book are definite, not mystical and unintelligible. In it the same line of prophecy is taken up as in Daniel. Some prophecies God has repeated, thus showing that importance must be given to them. The Lord does not repeat things that are of no great consequence.” Manuscript Releases, volume 8, 413.

“In the Revelation all the books of the Bible meet and end. Here is the complement of the book of Daniel. One is a prophecy; the other a revelation. The book that was sealed is not the Revelation, but that portion of the prophecy of Daniel relating to the last days. The angel commanded, ‘But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end.’ Daniel 12:4.” Acts of the Apostles, 585.

Brother Pippenger,

When speaking about Christ illustrating the end from the beginning what biblical stories illustrate this fact? I am familiar with the story of Jerusalem of ancient time restored on the 3rd decree and then Jerusalem of modern time restored on the 3rd message. Are there other illustrations similar to this one, if so where? We have a small women’s Bible study group and will be going over this topic on Tuesday night. Thank you in advance for your time and the blessing your studies have been to me. I especially enjoy using the prophetic keys as a Bible study outline. BP.

Response 

Sister BP,

Several come to mind:

The historical event that marks the beginning of the twelve hundred and sixty years of papal supremacy began when the ruler of the Goths was driven from the city of Rome in 538 and it ended when the pope was taken from Rome in 1798.

The 391 year 15 day prophecy of Revelation 9:14, 15 began when the last Emperor of Eastern Rome surrendered his national sovereignty to the four great Ottoman sultans and it ended when the last sultan of the Ottoman Empire surrendered his national sovereignty to the four great European powers.

The 1290 and the 1335 year prophecies of Daniel twelve began in 508 when the work of preparation necessary to place the papacy on the throne of the earth began. It is marked by the submission of the Visigoths, which was brought about by the military conquests of Clovis a French king. This was fulfilled in 508, and 508 also marked the change of satanic dispensations from paganism (it was then taken away) to papalism (it then started to be set up).

The 1290 begins in 508 with a military victory by a French king and it ends in 1798 with a military victory by a French king. The 1335 begins in 508 with a change of satanic dispensations (paganism to papalism) and it ended in 1843 with a change of satanic dispensations (papalism to the false prophet).

The 2520 prophecy against the southern kingdom of Judah began with the breaking of the covenant and ended in 1844 with the restoration of the covenant.

The 2520 prophecy against the northern kingdom of Israel began with the king of Israel (king of the north) being taken into captivity and it ended with the pope (king of the north) being taken into captivity.

The 2300 years began on the 3rd decree and ended on the 3rd message.

The book of Daniel opens with the war between literal Babylon and literal Israel (Babylon being the victor) and it ends with the battle between spiritual Babylon and spiritual Israel (Israel being the victor).

The Bible opens with the creation of the world and it ends with the recreation of the earth made new.. Jeff.

Hi Jeff,

I watched your Eatonville series, and was so intrigued I finished it in a few days. I have some questions about the series, as various things are floating in my head. What is the end time testing message for us? Is it simply what you teach? We have to be aware that we are repeating the history of the Millerites, but shouldn’t there be some additional message?

Secondly, what does your prophecy line have to tell us about upcoming events, what will happen next? What does it tell us about the Second Coming? What will be our great disappointment? How does your message relate to the general story of a financial collapse coupled with imminent terrorist attack equals martial law imposition on Americans? Thanks, and God bless! DS.

Response

Brother DS,

Sorry for the long wait. I have been buried with many things for a long time. The end time message is the increase of knowledge that begins with the understanding of Daniel 11:40–45. That prophetic truth opens the door of understanding to many other truths. The repetition of the Millerite history is a special key for understanding end time events that has been purposely opened up to God’s people at this time. The truths that are opening up from the prophetic Word are opening up the entire Bible. There is not an additional message, for these truths encompass all the messages of God’s Word. Bible prophecy identifies that the warfare of Islam will only escalate. Bible prophecy teaches that there is an economic collapse that precedes the Sunday law in the United States. We have a presentation called The Purification of God’s Church where we set forth the various waymarks of end-time events. The disappointment is probably the realization by the faithful Adventists at the Sunday law test, that there are very, very few of the former Adventist brethren that stand faithfully at the testing time, but it is hard to be to dogmatic about that, for one of the prophetic characteristics of the disappointment is that it is something that is not recognized in advance by the people of God. Jeff.

In Luke 21 the disciples asked Jesus what would be the signs of His coming at the end of the world. In verse 7 Jesus begins to identify the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Sister White says that as Jesus was identifying the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple to the disciples, He was at the same time illustrating the end of the world (The Review and Herald, November 5, 1889). If you carefully go through Luke 21, which we don’t have the time for in this interview, you will find that Jesus is being very specific to sequential history as he proceeds through Luke 21. He is not jumping here and there; it’s progressive history. If you look at Luke 21 verse 24 it says: “And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.” Jesus has been telling this sequential history, and when He gets to verse 24, He gets to the 1260 years of papal rule, because He is talking about Jerusalem being trodden down of the gentiles. If you keep your finger there and go to Revelation 11:2, which says: “But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.“ The gentiles tread down the Holy City; they tread down Jerusalem for 1260 years. If we go back to Luke 21:24, it says: “Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

That brings us to 1798. Remember what Jesus is answering. He is answering the disciples’ question about what the signs of the end of the world are and His second coming. In verse 24 it brings in the papal rule for 1260 years, and then in verse 25 it says: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon…”, and we know that the “signs in the sun and the moon” were on May 19, 1780. Now, in Matthew 24, which is the same sermon by Jesus, only recorded by Matthew, when Jesus is speaking about the 1260 years of papal rule in Matthew 24:22 He says: “Except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved.” There is three times in The Great Controversy alone, where Sister White comments on those days being shortened. She points out that persecution of the Dark Ages ended 25 years before 1798 (The Great Controversy, 306). Matthew 24 tells us that immediately after the tribulation of those days there will be manifestations in the sun and the moon. The persecution of God’s people ended by 1773 and in 1780 the manifestation in the sun and the moon. In Luke 21:25 it then says: “…and in the stars…”

The stars fell in 1833. “…and upon earth distress of nations…” It can be shown that the “distress of nations” in the Millerite history was the problems that Islam was bringing in the Middle East and verse 25 continues on: “…the sea and the waves roaring; Men’s heart failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are come on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.” As Jesus is answering the disciples about the signs of the end of the world, He introduces them to the signs that usher in the Millerite history, the 1260 years of papal rule, the “dark day”, the “falling of the stars”, and the “distress of nations” identified in the 391 year and 15 day time prophecy represented in Revelation 9:15. He says, “And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.” Luke 21:27.

Some Adventists don’t realize it, but the Millerites did see the “Son of man coming in the clouds“, for they saw October 22, 1844. According to Daniel 7:13, and Sister White agrees (Maranatha, 248), on October 22, 1844 Christ came with the clouds before the Ancient of Days as He began the investigative judgment. “It is the voice of Christ that speaks through patriarchs and prophets, from the days of Adam even to the closing scenes of time.” The Desire of Ages, 799. The whole prophetic testimony in the Bible is the voice of Christ. Christ is the One that designed the Millerite history to be repeated to the very letter in the history of the 144,000. When He is answering the disciples about the end of the world, He illustrates the signs for the Millerites, because the Millerites are the beginning of Adventism. Then He designs the sign for the end of Adventism, the 144,000. He identifies that sign through a parable. In verse 29 it says: “And He spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that the summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise. When ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say into you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away; but my word shall not pass away.” Luke 21:29-33.

When Jesus is focusing on the very end of the world in order to answer the disciples, He gives a parable. He says to look at the trees, the fig trees and the other trees. There are several passages in the Spirit of Prophecy, where Sister White identifies the fig trees as representing God’s people and the other trees the gentile world (Signs of the Times, February 21, 1878; The Review and Herald, January 11, 1881). He is making a distinction between God’s people and the people outside of Adventism. He says: “Look at the trees, when they begin to shoot forth, you know that summer is near.” Jeremiah 8:20 says: “The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.” The harvest is the summer. Matthew 13:39 says the harvest is the end of the world. When Jesus says: “Look at the trees, when they begin to shoot forth, you know that summer is near,” He is saying to look at the trees, because when they shoot forth, you know that you are at the end of the world, because the summer is the harvest and the harvest is the end of the world.

Sister White comments on this in The Great Controversy, 308: “Christ had bidden his people watch for the signs of his advent, and rejoice as they should behold the tokens of their coming King. ‘When these things begin to come to pass,’ he said, ‘then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.’ He pointed his followers to the budding trees of spring, and said: ‘When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.’”

Adventists and anyone that studies knows that what causes the trees in the Middle East to spring forth in the spring time is the latter rain. What Jesus is saying to us in Luke 21 is that when you get to the time of the latter rain, according to verse 32, “This generation shall not pass, till all be fulfilled.” When the latter rain begins, you are in the last generation of earth’s history and as we read earlier on from The Review and Herald, July 5, 1906, that when the great buildings of New York City are thrown down, then the word of Revelation 18: 1-3 will be fulfilled. When the Twin Towers came down on September 11, 2001, the mighty angel of Revelation 18 descended, the latter rain began to sprinkle upon the wheat and tares of Adventism in an attempt by the Lord to awaken us in time that we might prepare for the coming Sunday law. The generation that was alive when this sign was fulfilled (2001), is the final generation of earth’s history. This generation does not pass until all is fulfilled (Luke 21:32).

We, as Christians, are to live with the expectancy of the Lord’s soon return. And in agreement with Christ’s character, “Surely the Lord our God will do nothing, accept he will reveal it through his servants the prophets.” Amos 3:7. September 11, 2001 is the warning to God’s people that in the very near future our probation is going to close at the Sunday law. It is our sign, as Adventists, that the latter rain has begun to sprinkle and the trees are budding forth, and that we either prepare our characters for the seal of God or we are about to receive the mark of the beast. Our expectancy of the Lord’s return is now confirmed with a prophetic fulfillment. We are the final generation!

Hello,

My name is E I live in TN. I have looked at a lot of Mr. Pippenger’s lessons on DVD. There is some confusion among those of us who have watched them. Not so much on the content of the lessons but as to their importance.

I thought it would be best to send in a few questions for Mr. Pippenger to answer, that way it would clear up any confusion, and also if there are some of us who are misrepresenting these lessons we could stand corrected.

We have different opinions on some things and would appreciate it if we could get some answers from him. This would help to clarify some things. Thank you for your help. I know it is hard to keep answers to a simple yes or no but if that is possible on some of the questions it would help.

Here are a few questions we would like to submit:

1. Are the timelines that Mr. Pippenger draws, showing a link between events of the past and end time events, simple a theory subject to error, or is it to be represented as flawless facts?
2. Do these lessons give us an idea as to who the one hundred and forty-four thousand will be? Not just generally but specifically?
3. Do these lessons give us an idea when probation will close?
4. Do these lessons tell us we need to be teaching from the 1843 chart to give the last messages to the world?
5. Do these lessons give great importance to the interpretation of the “daily” of Daniel, chapter 8?
6. Do these lessons teach that the 2520 is of so great importance that those who refuse to learn it, or teach it are turning from new light that God is opening up to us at this time?
7. Are these series of lessons the unsealing of the seven thunders just before probation closes?
8. Are there life and death consequences to accepting or rejecting these lessons?

Thank you so much. We look forward to your reply. E.

Response 

Brother E,

1. The time lines are biblical facts. How I apply them, is subject to my human limitations. You will be held accountable to test how I apply the lines, but they are established by the testimony of more than three, and biblical truth is established by two or three witnesses. They are therefore established by God and you and I are held accountable how we relate to the truths connected with them.
2. The lines identify the reformation that occurs when the 144,000 are raised up and they will therefore be part of the unfolding prophetic message that awakens and prepares the 144,000. In this sense they identify part of the prophetic message that is understood and proclaimed by the 144,000. The message concerning these lines therefore identifies two groups in Adventism, one that rejects the implications and another that responds to them. Those that respond are the ones that are striving to be among the 144,000 and “follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth” as He guides them through His unfolding prophetic Word.
3. They identify that probation is now closing, for they identify that Christ is now finishing His work in the Most Holy Place.
4. These lessons identify that God is now leading His willing people back to the foundations of Adventism. It is there that they must go, in order to have the basis for understanding and proclaiming the last warning message for the world. That being said, the return to the foundations and the 1843 & 1850 Charts are a message for Adventism that arrives just before the third angel’s message is carried to God’s other children that are now outside Adventism.
5. The correct understanding of the “daily” in the book of Daniel is represented on both Charts, both of which have been endorsed by Inspiration. To return to the foundations of Adventism as represented on the Charts includes returning to the correct pioneer understanding of the “daily.”
6. The 2520 is in the same category as the “daily” just mentioned in point 5. When is it that God’s people ever have spiritual authority to turn from biblical truth?
7. The unsealing of the seven thunders includes these lessons, but there is more to the seven thunders than simply the lines.
8. What truth can we reject and not place ourselves outside of God’s Will? The 144,000 follow Christ everywhere He leads them, and you are asking if we can reject certain truths? I have been very direct, but not very longwinded, for I sense that your questions were being asked by someone that didn’t really want to understand. Perhaps I am wrong in that regard, I mean no hard feelings, but more often than not these type of questions, in the fashion you set them forth gives witness to someone that is trying to find ‘hooks to hang doubts on’, or points that can be attacked. If I am incorrect please forgive me. In any case, I stand by the answers and hope they help. Jeff Pippenger.

Brother Jeff,

I was re-writing the article from your presentation on ‘Time Prophets’ and I have found some inaccuracies-Notice this:

“Zechariah means ‘Yahweh has remembered’ and over and over he says ‘Lord remember me for the work that I have done.’ He represents people who have taken up the work of the Lord who wish to be remembered in the judgment in a righteous way.”

It is Zechariah whose name means ‘Yahweh has remembered’ but it is Nehemiah who makes the statement! Nehemiah means ‘consolation; repentance of the Lord, comforted by Jehovah’

There is also a problem with the 120 years that Noah/Enoch prophesied of the coming flood and gave a name to his son which indicated that when he died the flood would come, but Enoch was not given the 120 years prophecy, Noah was! I think I can get around that one OK by saying that Enoch’s prophecy was a time prophecy in a person, and when Noah was told of the 120 years – he then knew how long remained of that prophecy. PT.

Response

Sister PT,

I have been teaching this for years, so I do not remember when I got this turned around. Never the less: Upon the testimony of two or three it is established that a prophet’s name corresponds to his ministry, so Zechariah must simply be referencing his desire to be remembered in the judgment, and his book deals specifically with the judgment so it fits. I understand the same about Noah and Enoch so I don’t know why I misstated it, but I stand corrected. Jeff.

There are many ways to answer that question. Certain issues of reform have been set forth for Adventists. The health message is the right arm of the third angel’s message (Kress Collection, 50; Counsels on Diet and Foods, 73). It’s interesting how Sister White says something isn’t a test, but perhaps they are. She tells us that the health message is not to be made a test of fellowship, but she also says that those among us who continue to use flesh food will go out from among us. The health message is not a test of fellowship, but if we don’t get on board with the health message we are not going to have the physical, mental, and spiritual strength to stand through this testing time. We are entering in the time where every earthly support is going to be cut off.

You can demonstrate from the writings of Ellen White that there is no justification for an Adventist to be living in the cities after 1888. Recently, in the United States, there have been all kinds of false dreams popping up, making predictions about tremendously horribly things that are about to happen in the cities of the United States. Some brethren that were living in the United States, that had emigrated here from foreign countries, in the past few months, when they heard these false dreams, returned to their countries of origin. It’s obvious that they were motivated by fear. We need to be living in the country. In 1901 Sister White said: “Out of the cities, out of the cities, out of the cities, this is my message!” But we are not supposed to move out of the cities because we are motivated by fear. The purpose of living in the county is to be in an environment where we can more completely develop the character of Christ. We are supposed to be in the country, where we can enter into the ABC’s of true education. There is a sanctifying process that goes on as we learn the ABC’s of true education. Still, some of us are not even aware what the ABC’s of true education are. It is gardening! We need to be out in the country, where we are having a lifestyle, which the Holy Spirit can round off the rough edges and prepare us for the seal of God.

At the end of the world we are to be the people of God that keep the commandments of God, have the faith of Jesus, and have the Spirit of Prophecy. There isn’t any light in the Bible or Spirit of Prophecy that the 144,000 aren’t going to understand fully. This is the highest calling of all times. I’ll drop back to one more answer about what we need to do in this time. The Millerite history is repeated to the very letter at the end of the world. In 1798 the book of Daniel was unsealed and according to Daniel 12, at that point there was an increase of knowledge. That knowledge was life or death. Hosea 4:6 says: “My people are destroyed from a lack of knowledge.” Daniel 12:10 it is said that the wise would understand the increase of knowledge, but the wicked would not understand the increase of knowledge. Sister White says that every generation has a special message of present truth for their generation. The special message for the Millerites is what we call the first angel’s message. The first angel’s message is the everlasting gospel. The gospel is first set forth in God’s word in Genesis 3:15. It’s a pronouncement against Satan but it’s a promise for you and me. The Gospel pronouncement is that the Lord would put enmity between the seed of Satan and the seed of Christ.

The Millerites proclaimed the everlasting gospel, and the everlasting gospel produces two classes of worshippers. It can be illustrated, these two classes of worshippers, in the Millerite history with a variety of biblical symbols. In Daniel 12, the two classes were the wise and the wicked. The wise understood the increase of knowledge, the wicked didn’t. In the parable of the ten virgins which the Millerites fulfilled, you have the wise virgins and the foolish virgins. In the parable of the wheat and tares, the Millerites had wheat and had tares. In the parable of the wheat and tares, who separated the wheat and tares? It was the angels! The angels separate the wheat and tares. The history of the Millerites is the history of the first and second angel’s message. The everlasting gospel was proclaimed in that history. The everlasting gospel is a promise that two classes of worshippers will be produced. But the Millerites didn’t only proclaim the everlasting gospel, they experienced it. When they got to October 22, 1844 there were 50,000 Millerites and on that day 49,950 continued to pray to the Holy Place and Satan began to answer their prayers and only 50 moved into the Most Holy Place with Christ. They had not only proclaimed the everlasting gospel, they experienced it. Through the proclamation of the two angel’s messages, the wheat and tares were separated.

That history has left on record a testimony for you and me. The testimony is this: At the end of the world when the Lord raises up the 144,000 representatives of His character, there is going to be an increase of knowledge from His prophetic word. The wicked in Adventism won’t understand or accept that increase of knowledge, but the wise will. The wise are going to recognize it. The wise are going to begin to devour that increase of knowledge. The Bible teaches that Christ is going to sanctify us, make us holy. But how does Christ make us holy? “Sanctify them through thy word. Thy word is truth.” The process of sanctification that is carried out among the 144,000 is perfection of character that is accomplished through the 144,000 coming to understand the unfolding prophetic message that Christ has given them. The promise in the Bible is that God’s word will not return unto Him void. The purpose of the increase of prophetic knowledge among the 144,000 is to produce a sanctified character prepared for the seal of God. We fulfill our test right where we began in this interview. The first quote we used was from Testimonies, volume 5, 708, where she speaks of Adventists: “As a people we are called individually to be students of prophecy.” The work of studying prophecy is not simply to understand end time events. The work of a student of prophecy is to allow God’s word to sanctify you in preparation for the seal of God.

Brother Jeff,

In Future News, May, 2008 you stated:

“The starting point for the 2,520 was as William Miller pointed out, 2 Chronicles 33:11. The actual carrying of the citizens of Jerusalem into Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar is dated as 607 or 606, depending on which reckoning one employs. (It is interesting that the Millerites marked 607 as the beginning of the time which concludes with the “great jubilee” as they identified it. The great jubilee was 50 cycles of 49 years equaling 2,450 years. If you start at 606-7 and go forward 2450 years you come to 1844. (The Millerites marked the year 1843, but we know that they had not correctly identified the year zero [Editor’s Note: Jeff understands now that there is no such thing as the zero year. The mistake made by the Millerites was that they did not understand the full year concept].)

In any case, some stumble over Miller marking 677 as the starting of the 2,520 when they are familiar with Judah being carried into captivity by Nebuchadnezzar, but the prophecy that the Millerites identified as beginning with the carrying into captivity is the great jubilee and the 70 years of Jeremiah 25:12.”

I need a little bit more background to this topic: The year 607 is very new for me. We know that Judah went into captivity in the year 677. What happened in the year 607? If 607, is the date, then we have to add the 2,520 from this year, right? Miller marked 607 “as the beginning of the time”. What time? Why do some stumble over 677, “when they are familiar with Judah being carried into captivity by Nebuchadnezzar”? What has the jubilee to do with the 70 years of Jeremiah 25:12? Please give me a quick answer, if possible, because I do not want to have any possible mistake or open question in our German translation. God bless you, hope to see you soon, your WB.

Response 

Dear WB,

The 2520 against the southern kingdom began in 677 as identified in 2 Chronicles 33:11.

At that point the Assyrians carried Manasseh to Babylon, but Manasseh repented for a time and the Lord allowed him to return to Jerusalem. Later Nebuchadnezzar came and conquered Jerusalem. The date that Nebuchadnezzar brought about the final conquering of Jerusalem was 607-606. This started the 70 year time prophecy of Jeremiah 25:12. These are two different time prophecies. Jeff.

Hello Jeff,

I really enjoy your newsletter and your tapes. I can’t wait to get the next tape! I am curious about your position on the trinity. You seem to support the views of the pioneers in dealing with prophecy so it is safe to assume that you are non-trinitarian also like the pioneers? I know you are very busy so you don’t have to go into a lot of detail with your answer. Thank you and God bless. AC.

Response

Dear AC,

I would suggest you look at the book we now offer titled Detours and Ditches to receive a simple view of why I reject the wind of doctrine that you are identifying. Jeff.

“The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.

“Christ is the pre-existent, self-existent Son of God. . . . In speaking of his pre-existence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. He to whose voice the Jews were then listening had been with God as one brought up with Him.

“He was equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. . . . He is the eternal, self-existent Son.

“While God’s Word speaks of the humanity of Christ when upon this earth, it also speaks decidedly regarding His pre-existence. The Word existed as a divine being, even as the eternal Son of God, in union and oneness with His Father. From everlasting He was the Mediator of the covenant, the one in whom all nations of the earth, both Jews and Gentiles, if they accepted Him, were to be blessed. ‘The Word was with God, and the Word was God.’ Before men or angels were created, the Word was with God, and was God.” Evangelism, 615.

Jeff,

I have been re-reading A Word to the Little Flock this morning. James White writes on page 11: “The third angel’s message was, and still is, a WARNING to the saints to ‘hold fast,’ and not go back, and ‘receive’ the marks which the virgin band got rid of, during the second angel’s cry.’

“And has not the true message for God’s people, since the 7th month 1844, been just such a warning? It certainly has . . .”

In Spiritual Gifts, volume 1, chapter 25, there is a line of events that happened during the first and second angel’s messages, (and I might add that accepting the prophetic message from the messengers was a test.) It is very clear. Referring to the cry of the first angel she writes: “A glorious light then rested down upon these companies, to enlighten all who would receive it… Others resisted the light… The light passed away from them, and they were left in darkness.”

There was another test, just shortly afterwards: The second angel’s message was a test: “those who rejected the light pushed them… Then I heard a voice saying… ‘Come out…’ In obedience to this voice, a large number broke the cords… and leaving the companies that were in darkness, joined those who had previously gained their freedom.”

So, it is only logical to know, not assume, that when these messages are repeated, they are once again going to be a test. By some the gospel is considered to be the love message, separated from the prophetic word. So they have trouble with prophetic messages, because they dwell on the love of Jesus more then the justice of Jesus. Actually, they are hand in hand. LN.

Response

Sister LN,

Those in Adventism who insist that the message of the hour is the presentation of the gospel which Paul defines as the milk of God’s word (in Hebrews five and six) have – I believe – a limited understanding of what the third angel’s message is.

“For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. “Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.” Hebrews 5:12–6:3.

But when these very same men also insist that the prophetic word is not part of the gospel, it becomes evident that the gospel which these men present is detached from that presented in the book of Revelation. The prophetic word is part of the gospel and to teach otherwise is not only to deny the prophecies, but to present another gospel than is defined within God’s word. Jeff.

Dear Jeff,

In my study today I read Luke 11:30—For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. And also in Matthew 12:40—For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jonah 1:17 says—Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights. Jonah 2:10 says—And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

I am wondering if you have done any study on that prophecy as it relates to us? I heard a preacher say he believes we will be in the time of trouble for 3 1/2 years. But when you said that the whole Bible fits into the last six verses of Daniel 11, I believe it. It is all for us in the last days. But I just wondered if you had any information on this for our day?

Our new study group begins January 6 and is expected to be every Tuesday in my home. I plan to prepare study guide materials for this group. Please pray for our little group here in Canada. Thanks PV.

Response 

Sister PV,

“The subject of Nineveh, her lengthened probation, and the consequent grief of Jonah, was presented to me as a parallel case with our own disappointment in 1844.” Life Sketches, 204.

We will continue to keep you and your work in prayer. Greetings to I. Jeff.

Jeff,

I had often wondered what the ‘disappointment’ would be for God’s people in the last days if we consider that the Millerite time period will be repeated. I think that the following quote helps us to see a highly probable explanation of the coming disappointment. What are your thoughts? WS.

“As the disciples were mistaken in regard to the kingdom to be set up at the end of the seventy weeks, so Adventists were mistaken in regard to the event to take place at the expiration of the 2300 days. In both cases there was an acceptance of, or rather an adherence to, popular errors that blinded the mind to the truth. Both classes fulfilled the will of God in delivering the message which He desired to be given, and both, through their own misapprehension of their message, suffered disappointment.” The Great Controversy, 352.

Response

Brother WS,

I cannot be sure, for when the disappointment is illustrated in prophetic history, as it is in several places, those who are disappointed never seemed to understand it in advance. We are required to know there is a disappointment coming, for this is evident in Revelation ten.

That being said, I have my best educated guess at what the disappointment will be, but it is only that. I believe the disappointment that happens to God’s people immediately after the arrival of the Sunday law is the recognition by those who are sealed that they are standing alone. First let me deal with Revelation ten.

Sister White tells us the seven thunders of verse four of Revelation ten represent the history of 1840 through 1844, and that the seven thunders also represent “future events that will be disclosed in their order”. The seven thunders represent the repetition of the Millerite time-period of 1840 through 1844, in the time-period when the 144,000 are developed. We are now in that time-period.

But the seven thunders, and therefore this truth of the repetition of that history and the Millerite history itself, has been sealed up, until here at the end of the world. The Millerites had the book of Daniel unsealed unto them, the 144,000 have the seven thunders unsealed. As Christ unseals this prophetic truth He is bringing to light some very profound understandings. Some of them are truths that we have held for 150 years that now have a different perspective.

For instance in verse ten, of Revelation ten, we have taught from the beginning of Adventism that John represented the Millerites in the verse. He had taken the book and ate it, and it was sweet in his mouth, but bitter in his stomach. This is a correct understanding, but it is only the secondary understanding, for John here is representing a people who knew in advance that the book would be sweet, but that it would become bitter. Verse nine is clear on that subject:

And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

John was told before it happened that the book would first be sweet and then become bitter. John represents the Millerite experience in a secondary sense, but in agreement with Revelation ten and the seven thunders, he primarily represents the 144,000 who are awakened by God’s prophetic word from their Laodicean experience, then prepare their characters for the seal of God, and at the Sunday law suffer a disappointment.

“If God has ever spoken by me, the time will come when you will be brought before councils, and every position of truth which you hold will be severely criticized.” Testimonies, volume 5, 716.

“It does not seem possible to us now that any should have to stand alone; but if God has ever spoken by me, the time will come when we shall be brought before councils and before thousands for his name’s sake, and each one will have to give the reason of his faith. Then will come the severest criticism upon every position that has been taken for the truth. We need, then, to study the word of God, that we may know why we believe the doctrines we advocate. We must critically search the living oracles of Jehovah.” Review and Herald, December 18, 1888. Jeff.

Well, that is a big question. Some of the people that study the writings of Ellen White tell us that Sister White refers to Isaiah 58 more than any other chapter in the Bible. In 1 Corinthians 10:11 Paul tells us: “Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.” In Romans 15:4 it says: “For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.” Then in Ecclesiastes 1:9, 10 it says: “The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done; and there is no new thing under the sun. Is there anything, wherefore it may be said, See, this is new? It hath been already of old time, which was before us.”

The Bible is illustrating the end of the world. When Isaiah 58 is looked at, we need to understand that Isaiah is speaking about the end of the world. We can add seriousness to that, because this is where Sister White spent a great deal of her time commenting upon. In Isaiah 58:12, when we apply this to the end of the world, then we understand that this is a statement about the 144,000. There are many things in this verse but we are just going to take one. It says: “And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.” Isaiah 58:12.

The 144,000 will restore the paths to dwell and they’ll raise up the old waste places. Jeremiah 6 tells us what the paths to dwell in are. Jeremiah 6:16 say this: “Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.”

Sister White has a very nice statement. Selected Messages, book 3, 338 says: “Each of the ancient prophets spoke less for their own time than for ours, so that their prophesying is in force for us. ‘Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.’”

Jeremiah, Isaiah, and all the prophets are giving testimony to our day and age. Isaiah and Jeremiah are telling us that the 144,000 will return to the old paths. When we talk about the foundations and the pillars the foundations of Adventism are the truths that began the Millerite movement. The Review and Herald, April 14, 1903: “The warning has come: Nothing is to be allowed to come in that will disturb the foundation of the faith upon which we have been building ever since the message came in 1842, 1843, and 1844.” She calls the message that they proclaimed in 42, 43, and 44 as the foundation. But she doesn’t simply call it the foundation, she also calls it the platform. She says: “We do not propose to take our feet off the platform on which they were placed as day by day we sought the Lord with earnest prayer, seeking for light.” Ibid. In Early Writings, 259 there is a chapter called The Firm Platform. It starts with this: “I saw a company who stood well guarded and firm, giving no countenance to those who would unsettle the established faith of the body.” She talks about the “established faith of the body.” She talks about three steps, called the Three Angels’ Messages. The Three Angels’ Messages came into history in the Millerite history. As she comments on “the established faith of the body” in this first paragraph, she repeatedly calls it the foundation and the platform. In the previous quote she called the foundation and platform the message of 1842, 1843 and 1844. She agrees with it in this paragraph; she is saying the same thing in this paragraph. But in this paragraph she has given a warning, because she sees men step off the platform, begin to look at it. They start talking, that it would be better, that if foundation and the platform would be built this way.

In 1 Corinthians 14:32, it says: “And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets which means all the prophets are in agreement with one another. If they are not in agreement it would be confusing. In the very next verse, verse 33, it says: “For God is not the author of confusion…” When Isaiah and Jeremiah are speaking about the old paths and Isaiah at the same time is talking about those that raise up the foundations of many generations; but Jeremiah, when he talked about the “old paths”, he said there was going to be a controversy. Jeremiah says: “Seek the old paths and you find rest for your souls,” but the last part of the verse says: “We would not walk therein,” Jeremiah 6:16. Jeremiah and Ellen White are in agreement. The “old paths” are the foundation and platform of Adventism, which is the message that came in 1842, 1843 and 1844. There is going to be a group in Adventism, when they look at those foundational truths, is going to say: “We would not walk therein.” Sister White says it over and over: “This is our message.” The Review and Herald, January 19, 1905:

“God is not giving us a new message. We are to proclaim the message that in 1843 and 1844 brought us out of the other churches.”

If I want to go back to the foundational message, I know it’s the message that was proclaimed in 42, 43 and 44, but how do I know what that message is? Well, I go back to Advent history and when I do, I discover there were 300 Millerite preachers and every one of them was preaching the same thing. The thing they taught was the message that is represented on the 1843 pioneer chart. The truths they presented on that chart are the foundation and platform of Adventism. Sister White says: “God is not giving us a new message. We are to proclaim the message that in 1843 and 1844 brought us out of the other churches.”The Review and Herald, January 19, 1905. Do you know what Sister White says about the chart in Early Writings, 74? “I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed.” But I can show you, if we had the time, where virtually every truth on that charts is rejected in Adventism today.

Sister White says that the truths on the chart are the foundation and platform. The pillars of our faith, those were built upon the foundation. Anyone that’s a builder knows you can’t built the pillars of the house until you first lay the foundation. If you look at the 1843 chart, you won’t find the sanctuary, you won’t find the Sabbath. October 22, 1844 brought us to the point in history, where the Lord was going to establish the pillars of Adventism: The third angel’s message, the Sabbath, the sanctuary, the Spirit of Prophecy. The foundation, the platform that was to come under attack as history progressed, is represented in that chart. One more, just to make our point, and then we can go somewhere else.

Manuscript Releases, volume 15, 317: “The truths that we received in 1841, ‘42, ‘43, and ‘44 are now to be studied and proclaimed. The messages of the first, second, and third angels will in the future be proclaimed with a loud voice. They will be given with earnest determination and in the power of the Spirit.” Every Adventist historian will tell you, that the truths that were proclaimed in those years are the truths on that chart. But we don’t accept those truths today. So, those foundational truths, they are the foundation. We have been warned in prophecy that they would come under attack. When we reject those foundational truths, we are not just rejecting those truths; we are saying that Ellen White was a false prophet. That’s how I read it. She says we are to continue to present those truths. If those truths are erroneous then I think she has been a false prophet.

Dear Jeff,

I attended your meetings at Pugwash, Nova Scotia. Here’s a thought that crossed my mind after reading The Great Controversy, 441:

“‘And he had two horns like a lamb.’ The lamb like horns indicate youth, innocence, and gentleness, fitly representing the character of the United States when presented to the prophet as ‘coming up’ in 1798. Among the Christian exiles who first fled to America and sought an asylum from royal oppression and priestly intolerance were many who determined to establish a government upon the broad foundation of civil and religious liberty. Their views found place in the Declaration of Independence, which sets forth the great truth that ‘all men are created equal’ and endowed with the inalienable right to ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.’ And the Constitution guarantees to the people the right of self-government, providing that representatives elected by the popular vote shall enact and administer the laws. Freedom of religious faith was also granted, every man being permitted to worship God according to the dictates of his conscience. Republicanism and Protestantism became the fundamental principles of the nation. These principles are the secret of its power and prosperity. The oppressed and downtrodden throughout Christendom have turned to this land with interest and hope. Millions have sought its shores, and the United States has risen to a place among the most powerful nations of the earth. ”

Mrs. White makes it clear that the will of the people in choosing their leaders is key to the nations power and prosperity. Newsweek’s December 25 issue had this to say: “After a narrow win in the US Supreme Court and a Gore concession, President-elect George W. Bush spoke from the Texas House.” Al Gore is quoted as saying “Now the US Supreme Court has spoken. Let there be no doubt, while I strongly disagree with the court’s decision, I accept it.”

This does not sound like the people choosing it’s own government. This court action goes directly against the Declaration of Independence; it violates the very principles of democracy. Also each of the previous governments, which didn’t win the popular vote, but won the electoral college, had very poor mandates with bad economies. From my way of thinking the first key has been broken Republicanism has fallen, and surely Protestantism can’t be too far behind with a Sunday law and fully breaking the last key! Please send me your thoughts on this. Thanks, T.

Response

I think the Constitution does provide for the Supreme Court’s involvement in the last election. My views about the election run in a different line of thought. If we study the martyrdom of Stephen in the book of Acts, we see a very consistent pattern for how God accomplishes His executive judgment. By “executive judgment”, I am referring to the punishment aspect of judgment.

In the story, Stephen is used by God to rehearse the covenant, which ancient Israel had agreed to uphold. Stephen’s speech was in agreement with a courtroom verdict. God set forth the initial arrangement, then through Stephen, demonstrated how Israel had broken the agreement. All this was done before executive judgment was pronounced. This is the Biblical pattern of how God deals in His executive judgments. In the story of Stephen the Jews were familiar with the covenant and the history that followed. Part of their anger was their recognition that Stephen was delivering a legal summation against them.

According to Sister White, the United States has been the most highly favored nation upon earth. She states this truth many times and in many ways:

“The Lord has done more for the United States than any other country upon which the sun shines. Here He provided an asylum for His people, where they could worship Him according to the dictates of conscience. Here Christianity has progressed in its purity. The life-giving doctrine of the one Mediator between God and man has been freely taught. God designed that this country should ever remain free for all people to worship Him in accordance with the dictates of conscience. He designed that its civil institutions, in their expansive productions, should represent the freedom of gospel privileges.” Maranatha, 193.

Connected with this truth is the responsibility the United States has been given to protect-religious liberty. When the Sunday law of Bible prophecy is enacted, in fulfillment of Revelation 13:11, ‘national apostasy, will be followed by national ruin’ . This national apostasy, which destroys religious liberty, is directly connected to the document-which we know as the Constitution. When the Sunday law arrives-simultaneously, the Constitution will be overturned. At the stoning of Stephen the Jews knew the covenant, and their national history. Stephen simply placed these in the context of a legal pronouncement.

In the United States, previous to last October, the citizens of this country barely knew the Constitution at all. Suddenly the election arrives, and within a few short weeks, virtually everyone in the United States has been given the most intensive crash course into what the Constitution is, and how and why it works, its history and development, and on and on. The news reporters during that time period, were often commenting on how much of the Constitution we did not understand prior to the election. Then began the crash course in “civics and the Constitution”.

The election from my point of view was more significant in that it was apparent that God was allowing light to go forth to the people of the United States concerning their responsibility as the citizens of this country, to uphold religious liberty, by protecting the principles enshrined in the Constitution. I believe this is evidence that God’s executive judgment against this country is about to take place. He has given light about the Constitution, just before we deny it, and bring upon ourselves national ruin. God never changes. The Constitutional crash course was in once sense His mercy and another His pronouncement.

“The people of the United States have been a favored people; but when they restrict religious liberty, surrender Protestantism and give countenance to popery the measure of their guilt will be full, and ‘national apostasy’ will be registered in the books of heaven. The result of this apostasy will be national ruin.” Review and Herald, May 2,1893.

Dear Jeff,

Even though we’ve never met, I have spoken to you on the phone in the past when you were with Hope International. I am currently a member of the Seventh-day Adventist church in the —, Virginia area. I believe you preached here sometime in the last ten years. I am a friend of WW who lives in Richmond, Virginia. You may or may not remember him as you meet so many people in your ministry, but the two of you conversed when you spoke at the Amicus SDA church in Ruckersville, Virginia some time ago. I’ve always appreciated the depth and thoroughness of your studies. The reason I am contacting you is that a controversial teaching has cropped up in the Potomac Conference. I will give you a brief synopsis. I would like to know if you’ve run across this teaching in your travels and if you can offer any insights. I sent the following information to a couple of other friends for their input as well:

We had an interesting Sabbath at — SDA church in Cumberland County (1/6/2007). The speaker was the Potomac Conference evangelist, Ron Rogers who is planning on conducting a series here in a couple of months. We had an afternoon question and answer addressing concerns regarding a sermon he preached in late November 2006 wherein he alluded to portions of Matthew 24 applying only to the destruction of Jerusalem and not the Second Coming. Prior to this past weekend’s session I had obtained a videotaped copy of the sermon and converted it to DVD format. I will send you a copy if you wish. I believe you would be very interested in what he has to say.

When I pressed him regarding his position on the matter he stated that Matthew 24 verses 3 through 23 dealt specifically with the destruction of Jerusalem and has nothing to do with the Second Coming and challenged many of the Adventist preachers of the past who taught contrary. He also indicated that my position was in direct conflict with the Bible, Spirit of Prophecy and the General Conference (in an attempt to discredit me since I was the one pressing him on the matter). He quoted a portion of Uriah Smith to support his view. I afterward went home and examined every Spirit of Prophecy statement regarding “the destruction of Jerusalem” and I found him to be in gross error on the matter. There is one statement that particularly interests me:

“In his answer, Jesus did not take up separately the destruction of Jerusalem and the last great day of his coming. He mingled the description of these two events. When he spoke of the destruction of Jerusalem, his words referred also to the final destruction that will take place when the Lord rises out of his place to punish the world for its iniquity. The entire chapter in which are recorded Christ’s words regarding this, is a warning to all who shall live during the last scenes of this earth’s history.” Review and Herald, December 13, 1898.

It is apparent from this statement that an issue would arise where enemies of the truth would seek to divide this chapter into sections isolating the two events and even imply that the great commission to go to all the world and preach the gospel only applies to the first coming of Jesus. If verses 3 through 23 applies to the destruction of Jerusalem and not the Second Coming then what do we do with verses 12, 13 and 14:

Matthew 24:12: And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Matthew 24:13: But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:14: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Have you run into this issue before?

This is a new one to me. Let me know what you know about this. Would you like a copy of his sermon? If so, where do I send it? God bless. LW.

Response

Dear LW,

I of course know and remember WW. I never have run into this before. I have very little time to study the truth, let alone to take time and study error, so I will pass on looking his presentation over. Jeff.

“Many know so little about their Bibles that they are unsettled in the faith. They remove the old landmarks, and fallacies and winds of doctrine blow them hither and thither. Science, falsely so called, is wearing away the foundation of Christian principle; and those who were once in the faith drift away from the Bible landmarks, and divorce themselves from God, while still claiming to be His children.” Review and Herald, December 29, 1896.

Brother D,

You asked me to read William Millers Lecture’s numbers 5 and 6, particularly you wanted me to look at page 83, in order for us to discuss them at a later time. I was to call you back on Sunday, after I had time to read them. I had read them a couple times before, but at the previous readings I was looking for some specific information, so I raced beyond some areas that I determined were not directly related to the specific topic I was looking at. Therefore, previously I did not read the entire lectures closely. Sunday, I pulled the lectures up from the Pioneer CD, and I took the time to copy and paste them into Microsoft Word. I then began to clean them up, and as I began that work I read them more closely. On Monday and Tuesday I returned to read them, and I now have them about fifty percent in mind and can think about them some. On Wednesday I left and email message for you to call, and now it is Friday morning and I have a different idea. I am going to put my thoughts into words, and email you the following thoughts about Miller’s Lectures, so you can look over some things before we go any further. By using this communication technique I can place our interaction into the newsletter, if anything of seeming interest my come out of our discussion. This will help me prioritize my time as well, for I want to write some things down before we leave for Germany on the 22^nd of December.

The first time I looked at these lectures I was trying to understand William Miller’s logic for identifying the beast that is numbered as 666 in Revelation 13:18. I could not agree with Miller on applying 666 to pagan Rome exclusively, but I was not threatened by his reasoning, for I thought and still think a case can be made that pagan and papal Rome are so closely paralleled to one another, that it would not threaten anything to see the number 666 associated with both pagan and papal Rome. I disagreed with Miller on 666 exclusively as pagan Rome, but was not threatened by his logic for making the conclusion about what the 666 represented in connection with numbering the kingdom of pagan Rome from the year 158 BC through 508 AD. Miller marks 158 as the time that the league was formed between the Jews and Rome. He insists that when a power in prophecy comes into contact with God’s people, it is then that they become a symbol in Bible prophecy. Miller then concludes the league made between the Jews and pagan Rome took place in 158. Many historians, and Uriah Smith place the league with the Jews in 161, but Miller sites a limited history to show 158 BC. By doing so he projects ahead in history 666 years and arrives at 508. He concludes that the paganism of Rome went for 666 years before it was removed in order to prepare the way for the papacy.

You and I know that Miller’s history is difficult to push to far, but I still believe it is an interesting consideration. In the Lectures you asked me to read, that include Miller’s reason on 666 there are other subjects addressed. These subjects are the one’s I previously passed over in these lectures. Now that I have looked at them I believe that Miller’s conclusions are generally false. He attempts to apply the prophetic characteristics of the United States in Revelation chapter thirteen to the papacy. He obviously did not recognize the role of the United States in Revelation thirteen. As he forces some things into that model, he also forces conclusions about Revelation seventeen into a pre-1844 fulfillment, and he misses many important end-time understandings.

I appreciate his connecting the time prophecies together under the umbrella of the twenty-three hundred year prophecy, and I recognize his powerful observations of the time period of 508. With this being stated, I will look forward to our future discussion. Jeff.

Thus saith the Lord, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Jeremiah 6:16.

Dear Jeff,

I have been an Seventh-day Adventist for 43 years and for as along as I can remember, I have always heard that there would be no sex in heaven and that we would be “as the angels”. But, in Samuel Bacchiocchi’s, End time Issues, #9, February 25, 1999, he says that things will be just the same as they are here on earth, as far as sex goes!

I really feel that he is not right but I would like to know what you think about this. I have found you to be a real straight shooter as long as we have been studying with your material and we respect your opinion. Thanks for all you and your wife do for spreading The Word of The Lord. Keep looking up, The Lord is coming soon. Thanks, V and BS.

Response

“There are men today who express their belief that there will be marriages and births in the new earth, but those who believe the Scriptures cannot accept such doctrines. The doctrine that children will be born in the new earth is not a part of the ‘sure word of prophecy.’ The words of Christ are too plain to be misunderstood. They should forever settle the question of marriages and births in the new earth. Neither those who shall be raised from the dead, nor those who shall be translated without seeing death, will marry or be given in marriage. They will be as the angels of God, members of the royal family.

“I would say to those who hold views contrary to this plain declaration of Christ: Upon such matters silence is eloquence. It is presumption to indulge in suppositions and theories regarding matters that God has not made known to us in His word. We need not enter into speculation regarding our future state.

“To my ministering brethren I would say, ‘Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season.’ Do not bring to the foundation wood, and hay, and stubble–your own surmisings and speculations, which can benefit no one.” Medical Ministry, 99–100.

Hello there elder Jeff,

May God bless you and your ministry. My name is JK and I am a Seventh-day Adventist living in C. You don’t know me, but I know you very well, because I spent about fifty hours studying your prophecy seminar. I am very impressed in my mind what you are teaching is biblical and has great truth. I am a Korean and although my English is poor, I tried my best to understand fully. May God help me with knowledge!!!

If what you are saying is present truth (probation is about to be closed…very soon). I think all those poor Adventists in Korea need to know what you teach. I think I watched a video in which you said have been to Korea three times? Would you let me know where you and with whom you taught? Currently I know no one who is teaching things that you teach in Korea. I wish I can contact people who share the same present truth as you teach. If you let me know, I would be greatly appreciated.

One Bible question. Do you see any clues for the last days involving Babylon in Jeremiah’s days? What I am saying is before all those in Judah including Zedekiah were fallen and taken to Babylon, Jeremiah told his people to be subject to the King of Babylon. This passage always puzzled me in that; they are not supposed to rebel against Babylon. Do you think that this passage is giving us any lessons to learn in the last days? Please let me know what you think. Thanks a bunch. I know you are a busy man. Thanks Sincerely JK.

Response

Brother JK,

The whole Bible, including your question concerning Jeremiah applies and is fulfilled at the end of the world. When prophets become part of the prophecy they represent God’s people (the Millerites and the one hundred forty-four thousand) at the end of the world. Jeremiah then is illustrating something that happens with God’s people at the end of the world.

The following is how I would break down the story you cited about Jeremiah, but I do so with two qualifications. I do not intend to prove every point that I make, and I would hold my full conclusion back until the other places where the end of Jerusalem in the story of Gedeliah, Zedekiah and Jeremiah are presented. The following passage must be understood in light of those other passages, but at the surface the following passage of Scripture might represent:

The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, after that Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard had let him go from Ramah, when he had taken him being bound in chains among all that were carried away captive of Jerusalem and Judah, which were carried away captive unto Babylon. And the captain of the guard took Jeremiah, and said unto him, The Lord thy God hath pronounced this evil upon this place. Jeremiah 40:1–2.

This is the word of the Lord that comes once Jerusalem is captured for the third and final time. It is important to note which of the three judgments of Jerusalem the story is set in. In the passage you are wondering about it is set in the third of three judgments that are brought upon Jerusalem in order to utterly destroy the sanctuary and the city. It is of note that it then took three decrees to re-build the sanctuary and the city. The judgment of three kings brings her down and the judgment of three kings brings her up, for her judgment is based upon the word of the First and the Last.

“This overthrow of Jerusalem was predicted by Jeremiah, and immediately accomplished, B.C.606. Jeremiah 25:8–11. . . . Jehoiakim, though bound for the purpose of being taken to Babylon, having humbled himself, was permitted to remain as ruler in Jerusalem, tributary to the king of Babylon.

“This was the first time Jerusalem was taken by Nebuchadnezzar. Twice subsequently, the city, having revolted, was captured by the same king, being more severely dealt with each succeeding time. Of these subsequent overthrows, the first was under Jehoiachin, son of Jehoiakim, B.C.599, when all the sacred vessels were either taken or destroyed, and the best of the inhabitants, with the king, were led into captivity. The second was under Zedekiah, when the city endured the most formidable siege it ever sustained, except that by Titus, in A.D.70. During the two years’ continuance of this siege, the inhabitants of the city suffered all the horrors of extreme famine. At length the garrison and king, attempting to escape from the city, were captured by the Chaldeans. The sons of the king were slain before his face. His eyes were put out, and he was taken to Babylon; and thus was fulfilled the prediction of Ezekiel, who declared that he should be carried to Babylon, and die there, but yet should not see the place. Ezekiel 12:13. The city and temple were at this time utterly destroyed, and the entire population of the city and country, with the exception of a few husbandmen, were carried captive to Babylon, B.C.588.

“Such was God’s passing testimony against sin. Not that the Chaldeans were the favorites of Heaven but God made use of them to punish the iniquities of his people. Had the Israelites been faithful to God, and kept his Sabbath, Jerusalem would have stood forever. Jeremiah 17:24–27. But they departed from him, and he abandoned

“During these days of trouble and distress upon Jerusalem, Daniel and his companions were nourished and instructed in the palace of the king of Babylon; and though captives in a strange land, they were doubtless in some respects much more favorably situated than they could have been in their native country.” Thoughts on Daniel and o the Revelation, Uriah Smith, 24–26.

The second judgment was Jehoiachin in 599BC, and the third judgment was in 588BC with Zedekiah. The first judgment represented by Jehoiakim was 606BC in fulfillment of Jeremiah 25:8–12.

Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts; Because ye have not heard my words, Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the Lord, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. And this whole land shall be a desolation, and an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the Lord, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.

God’s people are always tested by the prophecies that are fulfilled in their own history. That last sentence sounds simple enough, but unless it is thought through it can be missed how deep the idea is. God’s people are always tested based upon whether they correctly understand their own prophetic history, which is called in the Scriptures the hour of their visitation? Did the antediluvians understand the hour of their visitation? Did Lot, or Pharaoh or Ahab?

Zedekiah does not see the third judgment, but he experiences it. Zedekiah did not see his judgment coming, though it had been faithfully set forth in God’s prophetic word. Judgment was upon him and his people, for they were a rebellious people with eyes to see, yet seeing not, and ears to hear, yet hearing not. Because Zedekiah and his people would not see and hear the prophecies of their history, Zedekiah’s eyes were less than surgically removed. Zedekiah is a symbol of not only judgment, but of the third judgment of three judgments—the final judgment.

In the following passage of Scripture you can see that Zedekiah is a symbol of the judgment against those who possess Laodicean blindness, and that before judgment was delivered, the prophet Ezekiel set forth a prophecy that was a visual warning of the impending judgment that was to be fulfilled in their history. Ezekiel not only visually demonstrates that when a prophet becomes part of the prophecy the prophet is then illustrating God’s people at the end of the world, but Ezekiel directly endorses that truth.

The word of the Lord also came unto me, saying, Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.

Therefore, thou son of man, prepare thee stuff for removing, and remove by day in their sight; and thou shalt remove from thy place to another place in their sight: it may be they will consider, though they be a rebellious house. Then shalt thou bring forth thy stuff by day in their sight, as stuff for removing: and thou shalt go forth at even in their sight, as they that go forth into captivity. Dig thou through the wall in their sight, and carry out thereby. In their sight shalt thou bear it upon thy shoulders, and carry it forth in the twilight: thou shalt cover thy face, that thou see not the ground: for I have set thee for a sign unto the house of Israel.

And I did so as I was commanded: I brought forth my stuff by day, as stuff for captivity, and in the even I digged through the wall with mine hand; I brought it forth in the twilight, and I bare it upon my shoulder in their sight.

And in the morning came the word of the Lord unto me, saying, Son of man, hath not the house of Israel, the rebellious house, said unto thee, What doest thou? Say thou unto them,

Thus saith the Lord God; This burden concerneth the prince in Jerusalem, and all the house of Israel that are among them. Say, I am your sign: like as I have done, so shall it be done unto them: they shall remove and go into captivity. And the prince that is among them shall bear upon his shoulder in the twilight, and shall go forth: they shall dig through the wall to carry out thereby: he shall cover his face, that he see not the ground with his eyes. My net also will I spread upon him, and he shall be taken in my snare: and I will bring him to Babylon to the land of the Chaldeans; yet shall he not see it, though he shall die there. Ezekiel 12:1–13.

Zedekiah represents the third of three judgments. Zedekiah and his peoples’ blindness represent Laodicea. Their blindness was demonstrated by their inability to understand the prophetic message for the day and hour. Ezekiel set forth a visual prophetic warning that preceded the judgment, just as the animals entered the ark before the door was closed, just as the plagues arrived before the door was closed on Passover, just as triumphal entry took place before the door was closed at the cross, just like the 1843 chart became the issue just before the door was closed in 1844 and just like the visual test that precedes the Sunday law in the United States. Ezekiel also confirms by word and illustration that when a prophet becomes part of the prophecy he represents God’s people in the last days.

The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, after that Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard had let him go from Ramah, when he had taken him being bound in chains among all that were carried away captive of Jerusalem and Judah, which were carried away captive unto Babylon. And the captain of the guard took Jeremiah, and said unto him, The Lord thy God hath pronounced this evil upon this place. Now the Lord hath brought it, and done according as he hath said: because ye have sinned against the Lord, and have not obeyed his voice, therefore this thing is come upon you. And now, behold, I loose thee this day from the chains which were upon thine hand. If it seem good unto thee to come with me into Babylon, come; and I will look well unto thee: but if it seem ill unto thee to come with me into Babylon, forbear: behold, all the land is before thee: whither it seemeth good and convenient for thee to go, thither go. Now while he was not yet gone back, he said, Go back also to Gedaliah the son of Ahikam the son of Shaphan, whom the king of Babylon hath made governor over the cities of Judah, and dwell with him among the people: or go wheresoever it seemeth convenient unto thee to go. So the captain of the guard gave him victuals and a reward, and let him go. Then went Jeremiah unto Gedaliah the son of Ahikam to Mizpah; and dwelt with him among the people that were left in the land. Jeremiah 40:1–6.

The word of the Lord after the third judgment, when Judah was punished and carried to Babylon, when Nebuzaradan a Babylonian gives testimony that the judgment of Jerusalem was based upon God’s prophetic word, when Gedaliah is made ruler over the cities of Judah and faithful Jeremiah is then is set free.

Now when all the captains of the forces which were in the fields, even they and their men, heard that the king of Babylon had made Gedaliah the son of Ahikam governor in the land, and had committed unto him men, and women, and children, and of the poor of the land, of them that were not carried away captive to Babylon; Then they came to Gedaliah to Mizpah, even Ishmael the son of Nethaniah, and Johanan and Jonathan the sons of Kareah, and Seraiah the son of Tanhumeth, and the sons of Ephai the Netophathite, and Jezaniah the son of a Maachathite, they and their men. And Gedaliah the son of Ahikam the son of Shaphan sware unto them and to their men, saying, Fear not to serve the Chaldeans: dwell in the land, and serve the king of Babylon, and it shall be well with you. Jeremiah 40:7–9.

The word of the Lord after the third judgment, when Judah was carried to Babylon, a Babylonian gives testimony that the judgment was based upon God’s prophetic word, when Gedaliah is made ruler over Judah and Jeremiah is set free, after which seven men or all of Judah unify with Gedaliah in agreement to serving Babylon.

As for me, behold, I will dwell at Mizpah, to serve the Chaldeans, which will come unto us: but ye, gather ye wine, and summer fruits, and oil, and put them in your vessels, and dwell in your cities that ye have taken. And Laban said, This heap is a witness between me and thee this day. Therefore was the name of it called Galeed; And Mizpah; for he said, The Lord watch between me and thee, when we are absent one from another. Genesis 31:48–49.

Mizpah: pause to pear to look, a watchtower.

The word of the Lord after the third judgment, when Judah was carried to Babylon, a Babylonian gives testimony that the judgment was based upon God’s prophetic word, when Gedaliah is made ruler over Judah, Jeremiah is set free, and after which Judah unifies with Gedaliah to serve Babylon, while Gedeliah decides to stay in the watchtower and serve Babylon, while he tells the others to gather the summer fruits representing the harvest at the end of the world.

Likewise when all the Jews that were in Moab, and among the Ammonites, and in Edom, and that were in all the countries, heard that the king of Babylon had left a remnant of Judah, and that he had set over them Gedaliah the son of Ahikam the son of Shaphan; Even all the Jews returned out of all places whither they were driven, and came to the land of Judah, to Gedaliah, unto Mizpah, and gathered wine and summer fruits very much. Jeremiah 40:11–12.

The harvest at the end of the world comes from modern Babylon, which is divided into three parts represented as the dragon, the beast and the false prophet in Revelation sixteen; and represented as Edom, Moab and the chief of the children of Ammon in Daniel 11:41; and represented as Edom, Moab and Ammon in Isaiah 11:14; and represented as Jezebel, Ahab and the prophets of Baal in the story of Carmel; and as represented as the king of the south, the king of the north and the chariots, horsemen and ships of Daniel 11:40; and as the power, seat and great authority of Revelation 13:2; and as pagan Rome, the Jewish church and Barabas at the cross and as all representing the remnant of Judah that came from Moab, Ammon and Edom when they heard that the remnant was in Judah in the time of the gathering of the summer fruits.

At the final judgment, Jeremiah is set free, Judah is carried to Babylon, a Babylonian testifies (Daniel’s testimony comes from Babylon) the judgment was based upon God’s word, Judah serves Babylon, and Gedeliah stays in the watchtower, sends Judah to gather modern Babylon represented by Moab, Ammon and Edom who hear in the time of the harvest that there is a remnant Judah.

Moreover Johanan the son of Kareah, and all the captains of the forces that were in the fields, came to Gedaliah to Mizpah, And said unto him, Dost thou certainly know that Baalis the king of the Ammonites hath sent Ishmael the son of Nethaniah to slay thee? But Gedaliah the son of Ahikam believed them not.

Then Johanan the son of Kareah spake to Gedaliah in Mizpah secretly, saying, Let me go, I pray thee, and I will slay Ishmael the son of Nethaniah, and no man shall know it: wherefore should he slay thee, that all the Jews which are gathered unto thee should be scattered, and the remnant in Judah perish?

But Gedaliah the son of Ahikam said unto Johanan the son of Kareah, Thou shalt not do this thing: for thou speakest falsely of Ishmael. Jeremiah 40:13–16.

Ishmael represents a warning that comes both openly and secretly which threatens death and scattering upon Judah and is rejected because the testimony of Ishmael is declared to be false. At the final judgment when Jeremiah (God’s people) are set free (sealed), at the Sunday law and the mark of the beast testing time, and the events connected with the close of the judgment from the book of Daniel (chapter eleven) are being fulfilled, Judah (the church triumphant) is then sent to gather the final harvest from modern Babylon, and there will then be a unified remnant in the time of the gathering. During that time a warning message represented by Ishmael, and thus representing modern Islam is recognized openly in the current activities of modern radical Islam and secretly as Islam is revealed through God’s prophetic word, but only to those that will see. The warning message of Islam is a deadly warning, which includes prophetic misunderstanding and deception.

Jeremiah forty is illustrating the end of the world for it is identifying the sequence of events that are clearly established in the prophetic word. Zedekiah’s judgment is the third waymark, and therefore becomes the waymark where judgment is illustrated.

At the cross, the third waymark of that sacred history there was judgment; at Passover, the third waymark in that history there was judgment of the first born; at the arrival of the third message on October 22, 1844 there was judgment. At Zedekiah’s capture we have the third of three judgments—we have the third angel and we have his message. Before that third waymark of judgment there was a visual prophetic warning, which is a characteristic of the second waymark in the sacred histories of God’s word. When the Sunday law arrives the final judgment will be here. At the Sunday law there will be two classes of worshippers that are demonstrated. The first class is represented by Jeremiah who is then set free, and the other class is those Judeans that are carried away to Babylon.

Jeremiah represents Seventh-day Adventists that receive the seal of God at the judgment of the Sunday law and the Judeans that are taken captive are those within Adventism that there and then receive the mark of the beast. At that time there is a call to come out of Babylon and the Jews (God’s other children outside of Adventism) that are still in Edom, Moab and Ammon represent the one-hour laborers that come and stand with God’s people during the Sunday law crisis. Zedekiah’s and Jeremiah’s generation is therefore tested by the prophecies that have been set forth to specifically identify the very time in which they were living and those that fail the testing process then were those who forgot the Lord’s leading in their past history and experience. Not understanding at least two important prophetic perspectives the Judeans are taken captive and die. The one prophetic perspective they failed to see is that the prophetic message of your very own history is what always tests God’s people, and other is that Ishmael represents a life and death message that must be understood by God’s people living during the end of the world.

There is more that would need to be factored into this story, for I know that after Gedeliah is killed the Jews go into Egypt and so on and so forth, but I think I might have at least given you insight on how I would approach that passage. Hope this helps. Jeff.

Hi Kathy,

Just mailed a note to Jeff but it did not get there, had the wrong address. Anyway maybe you can help me. There is a lot going on lately in the church I go to. It seems there is no consistency in the leadership. I thought we are to stay with the church until the Sunday law. How do we know when to leave and where to go? Please explain. I’m still in Florida. I have been listening to the DVD from 007. If I find a way I will try to come up for the December meetings. It’s kind of hard on me at times as I’m all by myself. I work only 2 days a week and funds are limited. I do Prison Ministry on Sabbaths and Sundays here at the prison with another lay person which I feel is a blessing both ways. I have a hard time to know when to go, where to go, etc. with the way things are. I hope to be still able to leave Florida one day. God bless and greetings to Jeff, Bronwyn and Family. Sincerely, LE.

Response

Sister LE,

I have no good answer for this. Each church is different, although I hear similar testimony from all over the world. Sometimes I reply to this question with Christ’s words:

“But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.” Matthew 10:23, 24.

We are not above our Lord and He was persecuted by his own. We are to sing the song of Moses and the Lamb. Sister White informs us the song represents our experience. Both Christ (the Lamb) and Moses had to interact with a church in apostasy. This will be the experience of everyone in Adventism that receives the seal of God. I have no pat answer for your dilemma other than to inform you that it is a struggle that is happening around the world in Adventism.

“In the time when His wrath shall go forth in judgments, these humble, devoted followers of Christ will be distinguished from the rest of the world by their soul anguish, which is expressed in lamentation and weeping, reproofs and warnings. While others try to throw a cloak over the existing evil, and excuse the great wickedness everywhere prevalent, those who have a zeal for God’s honor and a love for souls will not hold their peace to obtain favor of any. Their righteous souls are vexed day by day with the unholy works and conversation of the unrighteous. They are powerless to stop the rushing torrent of iniquity, and hence they are filled with grief and alarm. They mourn before God to see religion despised in the very homes of those who have had great light. They lament and afflict their souls because pride, avarice, selfishness, and deception of almost every kind are in the church. The Spirit of God, which prompts to reproof, is trampled underfoot, while the servants of Satan triumph. God is dishonored, the truth made of none effect.

“The class who do not feel grieved over their own spiritual declension, nor mourn over the sins of others, will be left without the seal of God. The Lord commissions His messengers, the men with slaughtering weapons in their hands: ‘Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.’

“Here we see that the church – the Lord’s sanctuary – was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God’s power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus ‘Peace and safety’ is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God’s people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together.

“The abominations for which the faithful ones were sighing and crying were all that could be discerned by finite eyes, but by far the worst sins, those which provoked the jealousy of the pure and holy God, were unrevealed. The great Searcher of hearts knoweth every sin committed in secret by the workers of iniquity. These persons come to feel secure in their deceptions and, because of His long-suffering, say that the Lord seeth not, and then act as though He had forsaken the earth. But He will detect their hypocrisy and will open before others those sins which they were so careful to hide.

“No superiority of rank, dignity, or worldly wisdom, no position in sacred office, will preserve men from sacrificing principle when left to their own deceitful hearts. Those who have been regarded as worthy and righteous prove to be ring-leaders in apostasy and examples in indifference and in the abuse of God’s mercies. Their wicked course He will tolerate no longer, and in His wrath He deals with them without mercy.

“It is with reluctance that the Lord withdraws His presence from those who have been blessed with great light and who have felt the power of the word in ministering to others. They were once His faithful servants, favored with His presence and guidance; but they departed from Him and led others into error, and therefore are brought under the divine displeasure.

“The day of God’s vengeance is just upon us. The seal of God will be placed upon the foreheads of those only who sigh and cry for the abominations done in the land. Those who link in sympathy with the world are eating and drinking with the drunken and will surely be destroyed with the workers of iniquity. ‘The eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and His ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.’

“Our own course of action will determine whether we shall receive the seal of the living God or be cut down by the destroying weapons. Already a few drops of God’s wrath have fallen upon the earth; but when the seven last plagues shall be poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation, then it will be forever too late to repent and find shelter. No atoning blood will then wash away the stains of sin.” Testimonies, volume 5, 210-212. Jeff.